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Author Topic: copper underplugs  (Read 7956 times)

Ripcon

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copper underplugs
« on: June 11, 2015, 12:11:29 PM »
Question for the group:
Are copper underplugs considered exclusively from Confederate shells?
Thanks for any help.

emike123

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 07:52:05 PM »
I do not believe they are exclusively CS, but the slotted ones are.

Pete George

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 09:37:19 PM »
  First... the Bormann underplugs you are referring to are brass, not copper.

Answering your question:
  I've put extensive, decades-long study into that question.  My answer to it is based on personally examining the field-recovered evidence, including hundreds of sawed-in-half Bormann fuzed shells, and the fuzeless 6, 12, and 24-pounder Confederate Bormann roundshells recovered from the CS Augusta GA Arsenal river-dump site. The answer is, approximately 98% of the time, in Army field-caliber shells, a brass underplug means CS-made, and an iron underplug means US-made. I had to specify Army in that statement because we know the US Navy used "oversized" brass Bormann underplugs in its Heavy Caliber Bormann-fuzed case-shot shells.

  I encourage readers to verify my observation for themselves.  Examine sawed-in-half Bormann shells whose fuze (or, fuze-hole) can be identified as US, or CS.  The CS ones are very nearly always brass and US ones nearly always iron. Of course an exception to the rule will turn up occasionally, which is why I said "approximately 98%." 

Additional evidence:
 The 2.9"-caliber yankee Bormann-fuzed Read-Parrott shells always have an iron underplug. Check the photos of sawed-in-half ones

Regards,
Pete

Ripcon

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 09:59:24 PM »
Thanks for the info......and yes, my brass underplugs are slotted so I'm now at least 98% confident that mine are Confederate.

Jim T

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 03:16:47 PM »
Good to hear from you Pete!

Pete George

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 09:30:49 PM »
  Thank you, Jim.  I read this forum every day -- but the side-effects of the Cardiac meds (which I must take for a full year after the heart attack) make it difficult for me to write a "complicated" post. I've got about 6.5 months left on that particular med.  Theoretically, the "cognitive impairment" side-effect will go away within a couple of weeks after that med's usage is stopped.

  I plan to have my usual table, located close to Mike/Carl and Dave Kornely at the North/South trader's Richmond show in July. Hope to see you and Dean and several other forum-members there.

Regards,
Pete
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 09:34:30 PM by Pete George »

Garret

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 11:57:18 PM »
I knew you'd have the right answer, Pete!   ;D
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

callicles

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 01:42:12 PM »
Glad you are doing well, Pete! Here are pics of the types we have found at a skirmish spot.  These are the only 2 types we have found, each is different and neither is slotted. We have found 3 or 4 but they are always only one of these types.  Any idea why one type has a hole in the threads?

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2015, 02:12:46 PM »
The plug with a side hole  appears to be the 'water cap" from a Navy Water Cap Fuse or Algier fuse.
the side hole is also where fine grain powder is presssed. it should also be thicker than a Bormann under or support plug. It may also be the "water cap" from a Seacoast Mortar fuse. Seacoast or Navy, it is still a "water cap".
Regards,
John
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 02:31:01 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

emike123

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2015, 04:12:40 PM »
While the bottom one is a common underplug for a Bormann fuse, the top one is a much rarer type mostly found in one area.  I know there is at least one fuse collector on the forum eager to get his mitts on one!

Hopefully, this picture doesn't get me hauled in front of a copyright judge, but two of these are mine:


John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2015, 04:44:55 PM »
No comment about the middle image??
John

emike123

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2015, 04:50:09 PM »
It is the same piece as the top image, John, just shot from the side.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2015, 07:32:24 PM »
So do you believe the top two  images to be an under/support plug or a water cap?
John

callicles

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 07:51:04 PM »
Just to aid in the discussion. Yes, the first two pictures are of the same item. The bottom and third picture is of a different item. So, although there are 3 pictures, there are only 2 items pictured. Sorry for not clarifying.

Ripcon

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Re: copper underplugs
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 08:13:25 PM »
I'm jumping into this thread late....but is there any indication as to which type of shell had the watercap fuze (6 lb, 12 lb, 24 lb, etc.)