Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: John D. Bartleson Jr. on October 17, 2012, 12:32:45 PM
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To All Interested,
In view of the recent topic reporting the use of this time honored time fuse adapter I would like to present a medley of the U.s. Naval water Cap time fuse adapter. Said to be invented by Cyrus Alger, although no patent has turned up, it was also copied by the C. S. without head stamps like the U.S. version.
The letter R indicates the fuse has been reworked with fresh time fuse and the cap filled with fresh pistol powder with the top amount moistened with spirits to form a paste which sets firm. This outer layer of powder provides a wider area to catch the ignition flame from the propellant charge. Enjoy.
All the Best,
John
(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u465/jbart2/TheUSNavalWaterCapFuse_zps9fb4fcf5.jpg)
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nice job John !! Thanks !!
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Thanks David, my pleasure.
John
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Excellent drawings!
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Thank you Ed, you are most kind.
Best Regards,
John
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Bart -
Great work!
Thanks for your contribution to our knowledge.
Bill
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Thanks Cuz, but its nothing new to us, might help the younger members. It is just a different approach to illustrating the shells and fuzes from the normal line drawings found in our pubs.
Regards,
John
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John,
As a younger member, and as a relatively new collector of just over 2 years, I can say your drawings absolutely help me out. You really bring these shells and fuses to life and give me a better understanding and appreciation of them. Thanks for taking the time to do all of these and sharing them with everyone else.
Stephen
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Dear Stephen,
Your kind comments make it worthwhile, besides I enjoy it. My thanks really go to members like eMike, Selma Hunter and Dave the Plumber and many others for kindly taking photos of the real item and sharing them with me.
It is difficult at times to obtain the exact real life colors and shades but am working at it.
Best Regards,
John
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John and all; it has always been assumed that naval fuzes with no markings are CS manufactured. Or they might have been captured from a U.S. naval yard and had not been inspected and stamped yet. Then CS used.
But, last year I dug a 10 inch round ball in an impact area of US shells shot at a CS land battery with an unmarked naval fuze in it. It was definately a US shell fired into this swamp, and there were no CS 10inch smoothbores for 10 miles from this point, nor any CS shells in the swamp. This shell and fuze are definately US, but unmarked.
Now with that said, there are definately crude looking unmarked CS made naval watercap fuzes out there. One way to tell is the flange on the top is much thinner than the US manufactured ones, and the diameter is typically a little bigger of the top flange. They might have made a more refined and better finished fuze exactly copied from the US ones and left them unmarked too, maybe someone has an example. David
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Dear DEavid,
One such fuse is shown on pages 19 and 20 of Jones book. If you have one why not post us a photo?
Perhaps another unsolved mystery of the ACW.
I have noted that it is a general practicet of collectors and authors to continue to state that if it isn't Federal or Britisn then it has to be C.S. Who really knows for sure?
John
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John, the CS fuzes on page 19 and 20 are the long pattern type which supposedly come from the river at Selma. They are like the US ones in flange thickness and diameter.
I went through my fuzes in my display, and I do not have one of the crude ones I spoke about that is loose. I have a few in balls, but I dare not try to back them out as I would be leary of snapping off the top flange and destroying it..
There are some around, maybe someone else has one and can post a picture. Sorry I can't oblige .
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John B., and others,
First off, I would like to thank all of you for a very information forum. I am a long time lurker, and have used the forum to glean information on numerous shell and fuses. It is now time to return the favor, and add to the general knowledge.
John B., your drawings really do help for explaning the inner workings of shells and fuses to new EOD personnel. You have a number of very good renderings of the US Naval Water Cap Fuse, but none of them show the lead sealing cap with the time stamp. May I ask why?
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/15SEC_zps72922b36.jpg)
This is one of many that were recovered from the wreck of the USS Westfield, a Union Gunboat that ran aground in Galveston Bay. The Captain and some twelve other men lost their lives, when the vessel blew up prematurely. The intent had been to destroy the ship, to prevent capture by the Confederates. We have the lead seals for 5, 10 & 15 seconds. If I remember correctly, a 15 seconds flight time for a IX Dahlgren shell was about 3,300 yards.
Another detail that I noticed, was that you marked all of your Water Cap Fuses with the letters "ORD D". I understand the ORD, but why the second "D". We have some 80 of these fuses from the USS Westfield, with ~ 25% having the second "D". Our date range is from 1859 through 1862 (the ship sank 1/1/63). We have a small number of fuses marked with the second "R", for reloaded - meaning the paper time fuse.
I look forward to reading your comments.
Jim J.
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Hello Jim,
Many thanks for your comments, questions and post of such a beautiful specimen.
Of all the water cap fuses I have collected (images only) only one had the lead protective seal over the water cap and it is shown at left in the middle three fuses.
Every Naval Water Cap fuse I have received or seen are stamped "ORD D" presumably meaning Ordnance Department (anchor meaning navy).
I would love to have some digital images of some of your fuses/fuzes posed as you see some of my samples.
The "R" reworked fuse adapters had not only a fresh paper time fuse installed but also had the pistol powder inside the water cap proper removed and replaced with fresh powder and resealed. The images I have were taken of fuses found during the clean up of a Navy Yard in California. Large quanities of the R and double R water caps and the small Schenkl fuzes were discoveredd furing the base clean up at water's edge.
Regards,
John
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Dear Jim,
After reading your comments about the lack of the second "D" on some of your water cap fuses I looked at all my images again and I do have two that I overlooked. Now I do have a C.S. with the lead seal and stamp but this post was about the U.S. Water Cap fuses.
I believe separate stamp dies were used to mark the fuse heads. "ORD" "D" and the anchor. I say this because if you look at several fuses the stamps are not always in the same place. Look at the anchor on the 1859 fuse in the last image. Normally it is stamped near the wrench slot at right.
Perhaps the person appplying the stamps just left the "D" off.
Thanks for bringing the absence of the "D" on some.
Regards,
John
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Just as a count from my small watercap collection, I have 4 of 11 that have the 'ORD D'. The Anchor varies some in size but is always to the right of the "ORD" or "ORD D" and before the notch.
I aslo have one of the lead tabs for the watercap and it is stamped "5 SEC". John, it appeas in your picture that you've made the lead seal fit the centercap of the fuse but mine covers the whole open area within the flange; not just the watercap. All I saw in Chuck's book and as best I can recall all I've seen were this way. Have you seen one with only the center cap protected?
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by the way, some fuzes are stamped ORD W, instead of ORD D. A few have been found around here at Fort Fisher. Any idea what D and W stand for ?? I always figured D was for department....
Jim, thanks for joining us and adding your input. Feel free to post and get into the discussion - we look forward to it. Stop lurking when you have so much to contribute !!
And Jim, thanks to bringing to light that some wartime fuzes are marked R. I always thought all the ones out there were from the California cache John mentioned. Now I know different. Some have 2 stamped R's I've seen.
And yes Carl, there are many different size stamps and they vary considerably that I have seen.
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Carl,
The lead seal had worn away and was only left inside and outside the cap wrench lip as shown below.
Dave I assumed the second "D" meant Department but have never read any documentation on its meaning. Would the "W" mean Washington Navy Yard?
Come Jim, lets see more of your fuses/fuzes.
Best Regards,
John
(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u465/jbart2/CCR3684200948125722_zps3fa9e306.jpg)
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Bart (and all others who are interested) - I hope you do not mind me using this term of address, as John B. makes me think of Col. JB.
This discussion certainly has lead to a number of new questions. The lead seals that we have in the Lab, are all the same diameter as the brass insert at the top of the Water Cap fuse body. They cover the brass insert completely. The seal has been conserved, after spending ~150 years at the bottom of Galveston Bay.
A number of people have commented on the letters on the fuse face. The ORD obviously stands for "Ordnance (Dept)". I was informed some time ago (cannot remember where - so treat as unsubstantiated fact), that ORD D stood for Washington Navy Yard. This does not add up, as Dave mentions that he has an example with ORD W - which is an example that I had not heard of before. The W for Washington Navy Yard makes sense, but what then is the D. Alger Iron Works was in Boston, and they came up with the design for the fuse. The second D standing for Dept. makes sense, and is likely candidate for the Ordnance Dept. (ORD D) in the Washington Navy Yard - where many of these fuses were known to be made. If one argues this route, what do we do with the W?
There are a number of different fonts used to mark the fuses, we have at least three in our collection. There are also a number of different variations, in how the letters were stamped, was the ORD three one-letter stamps, or one with the three letters combined? With the examples that I have, I could easily argue either way. Bart posted his most recent images of two fuses, that have a period / dot between and after the two D's. This is something that I have not seen before. The anchor symbol on the face of the fuse is the mark for the US Navy, showing that the fuse was made for Naval use. Bart has accurately described the use and re-use of the letter R, that signifies that the fuse has been reloaded. Black powder is hydroscopic (absorbs / attracts water), so the fuse had to be changed out after a period of time (how long, I am not sure ~ 1 year ?). A "wet" fuse - one that has absorbed some moisture, burns slower and inconsistently! This is something that a gunner would have lots to say about, in the vernacular!
I have been asked to post more of my fuses. I will be honest here, and say I have lots (~80) of fuses - ALL of them being US Navy Water Cap fuses, some in very poor condition. I will, in time, post comments and observations them.
FYI - I will let the rest of the forum know here, that I am from the other side. Yep, I am an underwater archaeologist and an artifact conservator. My day to day job is conserving artifacts, with ~ 38 vats running constantly doing electrolysis. The largest vat holds 1,300 gallons, and contains a IX Inch Dahlgren Cannon, #144, Alger Iron works, 1857, 9,155 Lbs. All of the USS Westfield artifacts belong to the US Navy, and were excavated by the US Corps of Engineers. We are conserving the artifacts for the Navy, and then they will go on display in various museums - and the rest goes into storage. I can assure you that we have lots of "bits & pieces".
Thank you again for a wonderful forum!
Jim J.
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Dear Jim,
I believe the quality of the Water Cap fuse adapter depends on its surroundings. The Galveston fuses had to be in mud which would protect and reduce wear. Whereas the California fuses were at water's edge among rocks, gravel and other debris which accounts for the wear on the lead seals.
I have also wondered how the seals were fastened to the fuse face. Were they press fitted?
I notice that the right hand fuse does not have a "D". Jim are you sure that the "/" is not just a scratch? Usually when I make my drawings I notice things like this as I usually draw at X400 due to my low vision, but sure missed these oddities.
If you enlarge the trio you can see that the "ORD" is one stamp as is the anchor. Because we now know that a "W" as well as the normal "D" indicates that they are also separate stamps. For this reason I believe the tool man just forgot to add the "D". Even the dates are in slightly different locations on the face.
Regards,
John
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Jim,
I have sent you a private message on here. It is difficult to know that a message has been sent only by a number next to "private message".
John
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Bart,
Your comment about the quality of the fuse, depends on its surroundings, is perfectly correct. Once a piece of metal is buried, or submerged underwater, there are a whole different set of chemical reactions that can occur. If a brass fuse is by itself in salt water, it will slowly corrode the surface layers away. If it is still screwed into a cast iron shell, then the iron becomes a sacrificial anode giving up electrons to "save" the brass - a galvanic action. Hence you will find the brass in good condition, and the iron heavily deteriorated. But if the fuse is in a "loaded" shell with gunpowder, one has another set of reactions. The outside of the brass is in good condition from the galvanic action, but the inside section of the fuse projecting into the powder chamber is heavily corroded. The reason this happens is simple, blackpowder in a sealed container with a little water breaks down into a whole slew of other chemicals - including hydrogen sulfide. HS2 is very corrosive to brass, so the fuse "stem" is eaten away over time.
To answer your question - The lead seals are a press fit into the front of the Water Cap fuse.
Bart - you mention "/" possibly being a scratch. The "/" was meant as an "either - or", not as a symbol. Sorry for the confusion here.
The "ORD" could easily be one stamp, containing three letters. Some examples have the three letters in a neat single curve orientation, whilst others seem to have the "RD" in a different curve from the "O". This could also be a result of a poorly made 3-letter stamp!
So we have three stamps for the fuses - "ORD", "ORD D" & "ORD W". Does this mean we have three different manufacturers, or places of manufacture, with the possibility of a "lazy toolman" thrown in for good measure! Then we also have the "dots" after the "D".
Bart, I received your PM, and I will find some suitable images for you. A small favor in return for all of the beautiful drawings you have posted!
Jim J.
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Jim J:
I don't think we here consider you to be "from the other side." In a moment of weakness (& poverty), I might even admit to having had a stint with the British School of Archaeology...
Anyone with a constructive interest in the topics covered on this forum is welcome to contribute, ask questions, or merely lurk. And anyone who can help share the workload of John's insatiable (& admirable) curiosity and appetite for precision photographs is particularly welcome ;)
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Aw shucks! 8)
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Mike should have capitalized the entire "insatiable" word when referring to John's image appetite! ;D
Welcome Jim. It's certainly great to have you and your knowledge on board!
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Jim, Your only from the 'darkside' when relics get destroyed. And it sounds like you are fascinated by them and really into the nuances. We here on the forums don't like guys that blow shells up.... but researchers are ok in our book !!
I wish more interaction would go on between archeologists and diggers \ collectors. It's all about the spread of knowledge. Around where I live, Wilmington NC, there is a wall between the diggers and the arch's. And the arch's could learn so, so much from the diggers if they took the time to listen. The locals can tell you basically where every camp, picket post, skirmish and outhouse was in Wilmington - valuable knowledge for historians. But there is no cooperation between the two groups. It's a shame, 'cause the old diggers are either dying off or have lost all interest. And when their knowledge is gone..............
With that said, I have already learned something from you - the R marked fuze were used in wartime. You learned about the W marked fuzes from me. Perfect exchange of knowledge !!
If possible, and you have the time, could you give the breakdown on how many examples of each year that you have excavated from the one site. I think that would be interesting...... but beware, 'ol Bart will want a picture of each one !! [ hint - tell him your camera battery's got stolen !! ]
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Yeah Yeah, or your computer has crashed. 8)
John
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you probably already know this, but the lead seals had a 'pull tab' on them to help for removal immediately before firing the shell. I lust mention this because the one Jim has pictured the pull tab is missing......
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Bart asked me if I could post some more images, of our US Naval Water Cap fuze collection. I will preface this post by saying that the artifacts belong to the US Navy, as they all came off a warship that sank during the course of the Second Battle of Galveston. I have access to the artifacts, as I am conserving them in a Lab, then they go on display in various museums or into the Navy archaeological storage facility. Many of the fuzes were found individually on the wreck site, and are corroded. Others are in good condition, as they were found in a shell. I will start a separate posting on fuze corrosion, at a later date.
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFdates.jpg)
These three fuzes show the date range that we have for the wreck, sorry but I could not find an “1860” at short notice. You will notice the different font used between the 1859 and the 1861 stamp. You will also notice that I included one here with the ORD D stamp. About one in four have the second D. Dave, Please can we see a copy of the ORD W stamp. Now, there is another little anomaly here, and I wonder who has spotted it ???
The USS Westfield sank on January 1st, 1863, and thirteen men lost their lives. Think of the wreck as being a time capsule, for one particular day in time. Why do we have fuzes with the dates 1859 & 1860, without the R stamped on the rim? The 1859 fuze would have been more than three years old, but it was never reloaded - no R stamp.
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFwicks.jpg)
I show these two fuzes to illustrate another little anomaly. There are the remains of a wick, in both of the adapters. Nearly all of the fuzes that we have recovered from shells, that were covered with concretion, have the remains of a wick. Bart wrote - “The letter R indicates the fuse has been reworked with fresh time fuse and the cap filled with fresh pistol powder with the top amount moistened with spirits to form a paste which sets firm. This outer layer of powder provides a wider area to catch the ignition flame from the propellant charge.” This is basically what I have found in the literature, so why do we have a wick?
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFsection.jpg)
This image is just to tease Bart, as I am nowhere near his superb computer drawing skills – but I can use a saw.
Dave - thanks for the comment about the pull tab. The lead seal was found by itself, and was not in a fuze.
Jim J.
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Jim,
The wick you found is called quick match and is added to enhance ignition. Beautifuol specimens.
Regards,
John
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Jim, I see the difference in the actual insert watercap side slots for tightening. Also, I have found that the slots on the flange for tightening the entire naval fuze body into the bushing can vary enough that the fuze wrenches do not always work on each fuze in US made examples. This might be from coming out of an exploded shell or some other action, but I just point this out. Same with Bormann underplugs. I have a few different underplug wrenches, and not all the holes in the underplugs are the same span apart
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On the long body specimen you cut in half it shows something I've been curious about. You find so many fuses missing the central watercap and even many that didn't lose it that have a loose watercap. I think your cut specimen illustrates why and that is the threading was very crude and not tight. Presumably your cut specimen was not fired and thus is exactly as made. I'm sure there is a reason they were made this way as they were certainly able to make tight threads as we see in the fuse body to bushing mating.
Nice images. Thanks for sharing.
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1860 dated ones are rare. Presumably prewar stocks were almost sufficient from earlier years and production did not ramp up until the war started. I'd welcome others' thoughts on this but in my experience the rarity is as follows:
Rare: 1860 & 1857. I have only owned two of each of them and I have and have owned a lot of watercap fuses. I have heard of a mystery 1856 one, but noone I know has one.
Uncommon: 1858, 1859 and 1865. 1865 ones are all found on a shipwreck taking war surplus to Mexico for their fighting after our war ended. If you think about it there was little time for 1865 dated ones to get into the supply chain for use from ships in 1865 before the war ended in April.
Common: 1861-1864 dated
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Here is a complete lead seal for the watercap:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff458/emike123/DSCN1192.jpg)
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Mike, I see it is also a reworked fuse. Origin?
John
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Mare Island.
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Mike - Thank you for the image of the lead seal tab, very nice example. I will tease you and say that you need to have the lead seal cleaned, to remove of all of the lead oxide - white powder. Your comments on the manufacture date makes sense, do you know the patent date on the fuze? I was under the impression that Cyrus Alger had his "improved" design by 1857. An earlier date could indicate one of the earlier design / prototype models.
Carl - good comments on the fit of the threads. I will have to go back and check through the collection, and see what the average "fit" was, some of the adapters are frozen and cannot be removed. After a very quick look at a few ~ 7 of the better fuzes, there are some interesting comments to make. I was going to start anther post on fuzes and corrosion, but will start the topic here.
The following comments apply to fuzes extracted from cast iron shells, which were recovered from a salt water wreck site. The black powder reacts inside the shell, and a number of chemicals are produced - including hydrogen sulfide gas. If the seal between the shell / fuze is a good one, then the gas concentration builds up inside the shell. Hydrogen sulfide is very corrosive to brass, and the brass fuze, the lower shaft section below the threads, is eaten away. The front face of the fuze is not affected by this chemical reaction, but is affected by the galvanic action between the brass / cast iron, and the brass remains in very good condition. Look at the two sets of images below, they are the same three fuzes.
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFdates.jpg)
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFcorrosion.jpg)
The fuze on the right was found separately, and has corrosion over the whole surface, inside and out. The other two, left and center, were removed from 9” Dahlgren shells. The one in the middle experience some HS corrosion, but the left hand one suffered to the point that most of the lower fuze shaft was eaten away. Following on from this, the HS gas also corroded away the inside of the fuze, and there is corrosion on the adapter screw threads.
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y420/crltamuedu/WCFsection.jpg)
The adapter originally had parallel threads, and if you look closely at the sectioned fuze, you will see that the bottom ½ is now slightly tapered – from HS corrosion. This sectioned fuze, is an unfired fuze! I have a few (intact – not sectioned) fuzes, which were removed from shells that have the adapters in good condition, with parallel threads that are a “good” tight fit. I like to “think” that the tradesmen making the fuzes, were good and knew what what they were doing, but we all know what happen in reality – and have all seen Monday morning specials!
Dave – what differences do you see on the side slots for the inserts. There will often be differences from one manufacturing plant to another, and between batches, and even between the workers. I am curious to know, as the examples above (the ones in good condition) will be very close to original dimensions.
Jim J.
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Sorry, guys, I am going to have to learn how to scale my images to fit the page. Please use the "slider" at the end of my post to see the right hand section of the image.
Jim J.
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so that's what happens to my fuses. I have removed a few from saltwater shells and they all have some damage. Some have a little and some have a lot.
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heres the ones out of my 15" ball, saltwater recovery
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Hey Dive,
May I ask how you were able to remove them?
John
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I cleaned around the fuses real good and backed them out slowly with an impact wrench and a special socket I made just for that
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Thanks Dive. did you use any lubricant?
John
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Kroil penetrant
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Dive,
you were really lucky to remove them without damage.
John
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David: The one on the left in your image looks to be bent. Is that the case or just a distortion in the picture? I ask because it seems like most long versions I've seen had that same slight bend in them. Perhaps it's the shell contents shifting against it during firing or apon impact.
John: He's not lucky. He's good!!!! :D
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Yes Carl, it's got a bend in it. All the long shank fuses I ever found seem to have that bend.I can understand the ones that went through detonation bending, but this fuse came out of a shell that was fired but did not explode. Maybe when it hit the water the powder shifted and pushed it over, pretty much what you said. Thanks for the compliment, but I consider myself lucky, not good. Although I do know when to back off, usually.