Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jdjjdd on December 30, 2012, 07:24:52 PM
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Can anyone help me identify what this is? It is about the size of a baseball with a dome shaped top and a flat bottom. It has a copper or brass layer over the entire thing except the bottom. It has a pattern of thick looking letter T's that go around the entire thing towards the bottom. Thanks for any help, Jeff
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Jeff,
Welcome with your first post!
Quite a while back we had a couple posts on very similar items. I don't know that we figured out what these are exactly but everyone seems to be sure they aren't projectiles or Civil War. The links to the posts were:
http://bulletandshell.com/forum/index.php?topic=430.0
http://bulletandshell.com/forum/index.php?topic=289
It will be interesting to hear if anyone has any newer info on them. Where did your example come from?
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I just picked this up from a museum that was closing it's doors. This was mainly a museum that dealt with Indian artifacts but this did have a tag on it that just said bullet civil war. The old timer that ran the museum past on so I really don't know where he got it or anything else. Jeff
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Just read the older post about one that looks just like mine. I'm not an expert at all but I can't see any way this could be a fence post finial. I can't see anyway that it would attach to the top of the post.
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I love these puzzling oddities. I have spent probably too much time on this one, but Pete George's past reminder that form determines function kept me thinking. A Klingon palm gavel? (for the Trekkies out there)--OK--no . . . hmm . . . Could this be a cannon tampion (perhaps for museum display)? I could imagine the round part inserted in a six-pounder up to the lip (Are the "T"s for tampion?).
Horace
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Don't think it is a cannon tampion for a museum. Definatlely to old for just a museum piece. They wouldn't of had any thought about museums when this was made.
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My guess on this would be part of a hat mold.
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Dr. Beach wrote:
> I have spent probably too much time on this one, but Pete George's
> past reminder that form determines function kept me thinking.
Actually, you're remembering that Engineering truism backwards, It goes, "Form follows Function."
In everyday language, that means "A manufactured object's Form is guided by its Function." Or in other words, Function determines Form.
Although that truism holds for many varieties of relics, I've especially used it to explain why cylindrical artillery projectiles have a particular shape. The various characteristics are "there" on purpose, included on the object for a reason, related to Function ...not by accident, or just as "decoration."
Applying the "Form follows Function" engineering truism to Jdjjdd's mysterious object:
The multiple shallow T-shaped indentations must have a functional purpose. Figuring out the function they serve on the object can help lead to its correct identification.
The T-shaped identations remind me of a form of gear-teeth, or a "track" for gripping by something similar to gear-reeth. But of course, I could be completely wrong about their being on the object for that particular purpose.
Also, note the presence of two narrow grooves encircling to top of the object. Although sometimes such characteristics are merely present as an artefact of the manufacturing process, I think this time they have a purpose.
The thin copper/sheetbrass jacket which covers most of Jdjjdd's object must be there for a purpose. Typically, non-ferrous "sheathing" over iron (or steel) is there to protect the iron from rusting or other corrosion. To me, it suggests Jdjjdd's object was intended to be used in a "marine" (salty) environment -- or at least, a wet environment. For example, I've seen copper-jacketed water well pump balls.
Jdjjdd's object is very similar in shape and size to several others which have turned up on the projectile-collector market, incorrectly identified as projectiles.
Here are some photos of those. Although they lack the copper/sheetbrass jacket, it may merely be missing from them in their current condition. Also note that instead of the circle of T-shaped indentions on their lower circumference, they have two simple "flats," located 180-degrees apart from each other. And they have circular grooves/indentations on their top. The diameter of the one in this photo is 3.5-inches. That version does remind me of the male section of a stamping-die or press-mold.
Regards,
Pete
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Here are two more. Like the specimen in my previous photo, they are 3.5" diameter. The base on all of these is flat, and plain, except for occasional casting flaws.
Regards,
Pete
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I don't think the T's imprinted on the brass had anything important to do with whatever this is. Might of just been a makers I D of some sort. Mine also doesn't have the two flat spots on bottom or the pointier tip at the top. More rounded.
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well it is interesting in whatever it is, and whatever it was used for, that there are quite a few variations in it. I believe this is the first one we have seen with the copper jacket
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The one Melton posted early on had a copper jacket. Until someone proves differently, I like my Amazon statue boob theory...
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2133/whats-up-with-the-amazons
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Thanks Pete for helping put the cart back after the horse! I think maybe I got the expression backwards because I was trying to reverse engineer this thing. ;) Guess now I am reduced to it being a bookend, door stop, paperweight, or a Hobbit's doorknob . . . . maybe this thing is like the monolith in "2001." Hmm . . now that amazon idea does have a certain appeal.
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Dr. Beach, speaking of "reverse-enginnering":
Tom Dickey showed me several of these things back in the mid-1970s, which he'd tossed onto his backyard junkpile of "projectile imposters." Ever since then, I've been trying to visualize how these non-jacketed things could have been used. The casting-flaws on the flat back of many of them indicates the back was irrelevant to the object's function. The only way they could be gripped/connected to something else is by the flat areas on their sides. Thus far, the only "practical usage" theory I've been able to envision is that they are the male component of a press mold for manufacturing metal axle caps (similar to the domed cap which covers a car's wheel-bearings ...or what covers the center of an airplane's propeller). The circular grooves/ridges on the item's top seem to have no purpose other than decorative.
Regards,
Pete
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You may be right. The only thing is mine does not have any flat spots on the side at all. Perfectly round.
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Somebody id'd these as a paper weight somewhere along the line. They had a specific use like at a printer's shop or something. I cannot recall where it was "proven."
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It's a slug for Paul Bunyan's shotgun.
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I forgot to add compare to MM-64, TT-199A, and RBTRF IV #586. It's dead on for appearance, just adjust the size from a 69 caliber to correspond with Paul's shotgun.
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All -
Happy New Year!
Somewhere along the line I've encountered one of these as well. It had a copper "jacket" that was somewhat loose. A photo of it lives in my archives but I cannot locate the source file for it.
I cannot tell you what it is, but there must be quite a few of them out there for so many to turn up like this.
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It came to me last night after my above post that someone said these were used by newspaper sellers or printers to hold down large stacks of newsprint. I remember a link to some reference, but don't have that now obviously.
Hence, the perfect boob shape to fit an inky palm