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Author Topic: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell  (Read 5873 times)

Treadhead

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The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« on: December 24, 2011, 09:08:45 AM »
Hello all,

My name is Doug and this is my first post on the “new forum.”   I have met some of you in the past and look forward to getting back into the search for anything CW artillery.  I had to take about two years off to take care of a small & minor inconveniencing side project called, a new job. 

I came across a little brainteaser in my research that I thought I’d share with the group.  When I first read this, I had to scratch my head for a little while.  What reb shell could this be?  A few key points are:

* Wood sabot covered in zinc and nailed in place

* Pin & Lug hold sabot in place

* Paper timed fuse & plug.

Anyway, it should get you to think. 

Good Luck,

Doug

AKA Treadhead 


John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 09:53:23 AM »
Okay I will take a guess, I've been wrong before. Conical base and 7 ribs sounds like a James Type II.   Pin to hold sabot sounds like a C.S. made Schenkl, Wood covered with zinc and nail ??  I will guess a early bastard James Type II. :) Nope it has to be the C.S. projectile copy of the U.S. But perhaps it is not a copy but a dud fired U.S. Schenkl. - enter, more discussion.  (photo from Harry Ridgeway collection).
Fooled again,
John aka Bart
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 06:48:47 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

CarlS

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 09:21:43 PM »
I also think it's the US to CS conversion of the 3-inch Schenkl shell.  Especially cool because for the pin in the tail to hold the wooden sabot in place.  And they take a special fuse adapter that while it looks like the normal CS ball fuse it has 10 threads per inch rather than the standard 12 per inch.   See page 46 of "Artillery Fuses of the Civil War" by Chares (aka Chuck) H. Jones.

Thanks for the post Doug!
Best,
Carl

Treadhead

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2011, 08:04:08 AM »
I came to the same conclusions as Carl and John estimations that the rebel shell described is most likely a refitted US Schenkl shell.  When I first read the description the words lug, pin, wood and paper time fuse started me thinking of a Mullane type shell, but the kicker is the conical shape & ribs.   

Whether or not the confederates had a paper fuse adapter that would fit in a Schenkl was quickly answered by Carl.  (Very nice!) One aspect I found very interesting was that the rebel workmen also covered the replacement wood sabot in zinc.  The early Schenkl production rounds were also covered in a zinc jacket, but my understanding was that this was to prevent moister from swelling the paper mache’, not to help the projectile take to the rifling.  Of course the zinc didn’t work and gunners in the field had to cut the zinc jacket off and whittle down the paper mache’ so the round would fit in the gun.  Sounds like a “slight” inconvenience when someone’s shooting back at you.  So I wonder if the zinc over the wood was to help keep the wood fragments in the rifling, or they were just copycatting the original Schenkl thought?

Doug

AKA Treadhead

emike123

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2011, 10:33:00 AM »
John emailed me and asked me to post this picture of a CS copper time fuse adapter made for the Schenkl.  10tpi (vs. noraml 12tpi for CS Read fuse adapters) and 1" diameter at the threads, just like the Schenkl percussion fuse next to it.



John had asked for this picture right after your first post, but he's been having some technical difficulties with the site.  If anyone else is experiencing things locking up, please let us know.  I have not been on much this am as it is XMas morning, but I have not seen this problem firsthand.  In the meantime, John you might want to re-boot your machine and see if the issue persists.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2011, 08:22:01 PM »
Thanks Mike,
    They are much larger than I could have posted.   I tried to post these after you had sent them to me when I was certain that Doug did not want to post them. I did reboot, twice and the 'browse' butten locked me up each time.  Just a quirk I am sure.
Tahnks again Doug for posting this thread. 
Best Regards, and Merry Christmas.
John aka Bart

Treadhead

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 04:25:34 PM »
I’ve come to realize that no matter what aspect of Civil War Artillery I’m researching, I might as well not bother to put the CW fuse book by Charles H. Jones back on the shelf.  I just keep pulling it back down.  That AKA “Chuck” guy must really know his stuff!  Thanks Mike for posting the two fuses side by side.    It’s a great pic. 

Doug

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 01:09:57 PM »
What kind of wood did the Rebs use on their "return to sender" Schenkls?
John

Dave the plumber

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 05:55:08 PM »
    Threadhead,              Chuck did know his stuff, but unfortunately he passed away last year. Be sure to read his bio in the back of the book.  He was one of the greatest generation, tough to replace..........

Treadhead

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Rebel Shell
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 06:15:47 PM »
Hey Dave,

I will read Chuck’s bio.  The book is still sitting next to my computer.  As promised, I won’t put it away.  Being a long-term military guy, honoring those that came before me is paramount!  Whooooaaaa! 

John,

I couldn’t guess at what wood would be best for the sabot on that Schenkl.  Although if it would have been available in the Civil War, I’m sure they’d have used Duct Tape!  :)

Doug

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Sergeant First Class  (retired)