CW Shell?

[alwion]

This looks similar to a CW shell, like a sleeved read?  but I don't see any way to attach a sabot?  What is it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Civil-War-era-6pdr-artillery-shell-/200926564755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec8281193

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Sir:
  I certainly do not recognize it as a known projectile from the ACW.
Regards,
John
 

[scottfromgeorgia]

Interesting. Very poorly manufactured. No sabot or sabot attachment design which is odd for a pointed projectile of the era. No remnant of a bolt on the bottom.

I can't see any signs of milling on the sleeve.

I have no idea.

[joevann]

Beats me.

[Pete George]

Of course, precise measurements of its diameter and weight are sorely needed. But meanwhile, I see some things which indicate it is not a civil war artllery shell, and may not be a projectile at all.

1- Although it resembles an "unfinished" shell, the casting's "fuzehole" has been reamed and threaded. Seems odd to put that much finishing-labor into an artillery shell without doing anything to the rest of the body.

2- Civil war shells which use a screw-in fuze which has a "lip" almost always have a flat rim encircling the fuzehole -- in order to pinch an o-ring gasket under the fuze's lip.  But the edge of the hole on this object is sharp-pointed.

3- The threading as seen in the photo appears to be VERY fine-gauge.  I can't think of any civil war fuze which has such small threads.

One other note:
  There are only two possible identifications for this being a civil war shell which is cast with no sabot on its completely-flat iron base... an unfinished Tennessee-sabot shell or a Brooke ratchet-plate sabot shell. Both of those varieties have a significant dome in the iron at the bottom of their powder-cavity, to accomodate the sabot attachment bolt.  We need to know whether or not this object's cavity has that dome.

Regards,
Pete

[scottfromgeorgia]

My guess is that the fuze hole is indeed a hole for a fuze.

I wonder if it could be some kind of explosive device used for other purposes - mining, rock removal, etc. 

[alwion]

I emailed for more detailed info. will post if I get a reply

[MR282]

Spanish American period? An educated guess, certainly pre WWI.


Mark

[alwion]

Reply from the seller with more info

The shell weights 6.25 pounds, is 7 inches long, and 3.25 inches wide. The inside base looks rounded, or dome shaped, and I measured the inside power chamber from the inside bottom base up to the upper most threaded edge for the fuze and that is 6.5 inches.  Hope all this helps, thanks,Matt

[Selma Hunter]

Pete & All -

As to possible "Brooke ratchet-sabot" provenance I would think not.  To the best of my knowledge (and limited machining/metal working experience) Brooke projectiles were all cast with the ratchets.  Machining those flukes or vanes after the fact would be most difficult and highly unlikely.  All I have seen have been cast and none have shown indications of machining. 

IMHO.

Bill

[Bryan]

What ever it is it sold for $203.50

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

sir;
  Rember P.t. Barnum's quote.
Whatever it is it is not ACW, finished or unfinished.
John

[1840cavsaber]

I know this is an old posting, but did anybody even consider IMPORTED shells??

This is an early pattern 1850's British ARMSTRONG shell for a 6 or 9 pounder, it was supposed to have a LEAD sleave around most of its body for the ability to catch on the guns rifling. I am familar with some types of Armstrong shells that were used in the CW, but not sure if this pattern was used a lot, or very little.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Sir;
    The Royal Artillery used two lead coated projectiles in case, shell and solid design
The Armstrong shell that was lead coated bearing the EOC mark at its ogive was indeed an Armstrong and made at his Elswick Ordnance Company.
    I have only seden it as an EOC,  Whereas the common shell was made at the Woolwich arsenal but had the same outward appearance with the addition of the R.L. (royal Laboratory) stamped into the lead.  It was easily recognized from the shrapnel (case shot) by the presence of the large brass fuze adapter.
    The shrapnel or case shot as we term it was a combination shrapnel, shell or unfuzed as a solid shot.  The explosive loaded shells could be found with a shipping plug with a No. 2 percussion fuze below or a No 22 Time fuze with a No. 2 below.
   The shell on eBay has a forward bearing band.   The lead coated projectiles engaged the rifling from ogive to base and did not require a forward bearing surface.
Cheers,
John

[1840cavsaber]

Here is a link to what  I found. Scroll down the link and you will see the exact shell........only with the lead covering.

http://www.submerged.co.uk/breach-and-muzzel-loaders.php

Either way, the shell on ebay would have that lead covering, but the real interest is was this pattern shell used in the Civil War?

Was it an early unpopular short term use import?