New proof of civil war rifled cannon "Fixed" shells

[Robert Gregory]

Hi John,

Quoting the 1862 U. S. Ordnance Manual, pgs. 276-7 "For the greater security of field ammunition, the cartridges were covered with paper cylinders and caps . . . The caps for shells are stained black, for spherical case shot, red; for shot, not colored".  I believe the words "greater security" referred to protecting the powder bag from an errant spark.  Incidentally, I have seen remnants of the cylinder still remaining under the twine in about four examples not of shot, none were colored.  If that is generally true, I would like to know how they could determine a shell from a case from a shot when the cartridge was stuck ball down in a limber ammunition box except for their position in the box.  Regards - Bob Gregory 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Bob,
   Thanks for your input.  the balls were down and the paper cylinders and caps were stained black, red and no color.  Just found out that the paper was removed prior to loading
P.s.  Below is an interesting account that was sent tome:

"My gun was one of the last to get into position, coming up on the left.  I was assigned the position of No. 2, Jim Ford No.1  The Minnie-balls were now flying fast by our heads, through the clover and everywhere.  A charge of powder was handed me, which I put into the muzzle of the gun.  In a rifled gun this should have been rammed home first, but No.1 said “Put in your shell and let one ram do.  Hear those minnies?” I heard them and adopted the suggestion: the consequence was, the charge stopped half-way down and there it stuck, and the gun was thereby rendered unavailable.

Moore, Edward A.  The Story of a Cannoneer Under Stonewall  1910"
    Hey Jim Ford, the next time you should order "fixed ammo"!

Regards,
John

[Robert Gregory]

Hi John,

That is true and it is discussed on the same pages that I referenced.  Also, the Manual said, the cap could be pulled off the base of the cartridge bag and placed over the ball to reduce windage.  However, that seems to fowl the gun and cause loading problems.  Regards - Bob Gregory

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Bob,
  Yes, I read the same comment about using the cap to center the shell.
when those men rammed home both shell and powder bag together at the same time they not only jammed their rifle but broke standing rules not to do so.  I guess in the heat of battle one will try anything.
Cheers,
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To All Interested,
    I know I have said that I ajm about through with this post but I keep runing into more data.  If this has been cited before please pardon my redundancy.  However, I found this interesting excert from the following:
    Excerpts from Ordnance Memorandum #21:
Page 45 – Ammunition for Field and Mountain Service
“The projectiles are attached by straps of tin to a wooden sabot, to which is also fastened the cartridge-bag containing the charge for the 12-pounder and the mountain-howitzer, making together, a round of fixed ammunition. In rifle-guns, the cartridge is not attached to the projectile”

Cheers,
John

[Robert Gregory]

Hurrah!  That is what I have been trying to explain to the forum via. the interior space of the crate.  In the case of the 20 Pounder Rifle crate stenciled "10 ROUNDS / 20 PDR, RIFLE / SHELLS FIXED / 1861 / TIME FUZE."  Ten cartridges between 14-15 inches long could not fit into the crate, however, 10 projectiles and ten unattached powder bags will fit into the crate.  The word "fixed" relating to rifle ammunition has evolved from the term used for spherical ammunition.  That is, rifle ammunition "fixed" means that the projectiles and powder bags were placed into the crate together, but not attached.  This method of determining the contents of the crate does not support the cliche "think outside of the box", instead I am urging the forum/collector to "think inside of the box."  There lies the answer. Regards - Bob Gregory

[Dave the plumber]

     what do I know because I wasn't alive then, but it seems awfully dangerous to have filled powder bags loose in a shipping crate. Crates can fall over, get jostled on bumpy 1860 dirt roads etc and break the bags, or the bags untie. Then you have loose powder sieving down under the shells, which is a recipie for disaster of iron shells grinding against powder on those same bumpy roads.  Even if the box was filled with a layer of tow between shells and powder charges, unless the charges were specially wrapped, or wood sectioned individually off, it seems pretty darn dangerous.       But, then again, I have never seen a shipping box marked with just powder bags made up and ready to go........

[Robert Gregory]

Hi David,

Good point, as in the Hotchkiss 3 Inch canister crate (see Cannons by Dean Thomas) there were wood partitions separating the projectiles from the powder bags.  In the case of the 20 Pounder Rifle crate stenciled "SHELLS FIXED", the powder bags were in the crate.  There is way too much room for just shells and the arsenals utilized every bit of space inside the crates.  A powder bag not attached to the projectile would have been closed in the following manner.  The extra material at the open end of the powder bag would have been twisted, turned down over the outside of the bag, then secured with twine.  Regards - Bob Gregory

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To Pete and all other interested;
Last sentence for David,

    I promise this is my last post on this interesting and informative thread.  In doing some further research among the Ordnance Department, U.S. Armyh Ordnance Memoranda I ran across this most significant order from the Ordnance Committee:

Ordnance Memoranda No. 9   Excerpt
"Page 17
AMMUNITION CHESTS FOR FIELD GUNS.
      The Board recommend- that there be permanently attached to each tray of the ammunition chest a tin or zinc box with a secure lid, especially for carrying fuzes and primers ; and that the ammunition for rifled field guns be not "fixed," but that one or two compartments be provided at the center or ends of the chest for cartridges ; these should be lined with tin or zinc to prevent the sifting of grains of powder among the projectiles ; and that each chest for 3-inch rifle should be so arranged as to carry forty rounds, and that model ammunition chests be made on the above plan for adoption."

Cheers,
John aka Bart