Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Author Topic: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;  (Read 36128 times)

Dave the plumber

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2012, 10:15:33 PM »
Jim,               I see the difference in the actual insert watercap side slots for tightening.              Also, I have found that the slots on the flange for tightening the entire naval fuze body into the bushing can vary enough that the fuze wrenches do not always work on each fuze in US made examples. This might be from coming out of an exploded shell or some other action, but I just point this out.                  Same with Bormann underplugs. I have a few different underplug wrenches, and not all the holes in the underplugs are the same span apart

CarlS

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2012, 10:53:38 PM »
On the long body specimen you cut in half it shows something I've been curious about.  You find so many fuses missing the central watercap and even many that didn't lose it that have a loose watercap.  I think your cut specimen illustrates why and that is the threading was very crude and not tight.  Presumably your cut specimen was not fired and thus is exactly as made.  I'm sure there is a reason they were made this way as they were certainly able to make tight threads as we see in the fuse body to bushing mating.

Nice images.  Thanks for sharing.
Best,
Carl

emike123

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2012, 11:08:43 AM »
1860 dated ones are rare.  Presumably prewar stocks were almost sufficient from earlier years and production did not ramp up until the war started.  I'd welcome others' thoughts on this but in my experience the rarity is as follows:

Rare: 1860 & 1857.  I have only owned two of each of them and I have and have owned a lot of watercap fuses. I have heard of a mystery 1856 one, but noone I know has one.
Uncommon: 1858, 1859 and 1865.  1865 ones are all found on a shipwreck taking war surplus to Mexico for their fighting after our war ended.  If you think about it there was little time for 1865 dated ones to get into the supply chain for use from ships in 1865 before the war ended in April.
Common: 1861-1864 dated

emike123

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2012, 11:18:31 AM »
Here is a complete lead seal for the watercap:


John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2012, 12:36:16 PM »
Mike, I see it is also a reworked fuse.  Origin?
John

emike123

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2012, 01:21:50 PM »
Mare Island.

Jim J.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2012, 01:18:53 PM »
Mike - Thank you for the image of the lead seal tab, very nice example.  I will tease you and say that you need to have the lead seal cleaned, to remove of all of the lead oxide - white powder.  Your comments on the manufacture date makes sense, do you know the patent date on the fuze?  I was under the impression that Cyrus Alger had his "improved" design by 1857.  An earlier date could indicate one of the earlier design / prototype models.
Carl - good comments on the fit of the threads.  I will have to go back and check through the collection, and see what the average "fit" was, some of the adapters are frozen and cannot be removed.  After a very quick look at a few ~ 7 of the better fuzes, there are some interesting comments to make.  I was going to start anther post on fuzes and corrosion, but will start the topic here. 

The following comments apply to fuzes extracted from cast iron shells, which were recovered from a salt water wreck site.  The black powder reacts inside the shell, and a number of chemicals are produced - including hydrogen sulfide gas.  If the seal between the shell / fuze is a good one, then the gas concentration builds up inside the shell.  Hydrogen sulfide is very corrosive to brass, and the brass fuze, the lower shaft section below the threads, is eaten away.  The front face of the fuze is not affected by this chemical reaction, but is affected by the galvanic action between the brass / cast iron, and the brass remains in very good condition.  Look at the two sets of images below, they are the same three fuzes.



The fuze on the right was found separately, and has corrosion over the whole surface, inside and out.  The other two, left and center, were removed from 9” Dahlgren shells.  The one in the middle experience some HS corrosion, but the left hand one suffered  to the point that most of the lower fuze shaft was eaten away.  Following on from this, the HS gas also corroded away the inside of the fuze, and there is corrosion on the adapter screw threads.


The adapter originally had parallel threads, and if you look closely at the sectioned fuze, you will see that the bottom ½ is now slightly tapered – from HS corrosion.  This sectioned fuze, is an unfired fuze!  I have a few (intact – not sectioned) fuzes, which were removed from shells that have the adapters in good condition, with parallel threads that are a “good” tight fit.  I like to “think” that the tradesmen making the fuzes, were good and knew what what they were doing, but we all know what happen in reality – and have all seen Monday morning specials! 

Dave – what differences do you see on the side slots for the inserts.  There will often be differences from one manufacturing plant to another, and between batches, and even between the workers.  I am curious to know, as the examples above (the ones in good condition) will be very close to original dimensions. 
Jim J.


 

Jim J.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2012, 01:23:19 PM »
Sorry, guys, I am going to have to learn how to scale my images to fit the page.  Please use the "slider" at the end of my post to see the right hand section of the image. 
Jim J.

divedigger

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2012, 09:04:51 AM »
so that's what happens to my fuses. I have removed a few from saltwater shells and they all have some damage. Some have a little and some have a lot.

divedigger

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2012, 04:02:44 PM »
heres  the ones out of my 15" ball, saltwater recovery

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2012, 04:11:14 PM »
Hey Dive,
    May I ask how you were able to remove them?
John

divedigger

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2012, 04:17:21 PM »
I cleaned around the fuses real good and backed them out slowly with an impact wrench and a special socket I made just for that

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2012, 05:59:27 PM »
Thanks Dive.  did you use any lubricant?
John

divedigger

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2012, 09:11:28 PM »
Kroil penetrant

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: The U. S. Naval Water Cap Fuse;
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2012, 09:36:23 PM »
Dive,
you were really lucky to remove them without damage.
John