Trans-Mississippi Taxonomy

[ETEX]

I reattached all the photos. Carl I will drop you an email about letting you into my login.

[acwbullets]

No. 3 almost looks like a kind of machine groove bullet. Great additions Wes.

[ETEX]

Wes, thanks for throwing those bullets into the thread. I am still waiting for you to let me know what it will take for me to get one of your Tyler Texas bullets that you have hidden away.

The Dabney and some of the others Tom listed in his book are bullets I hope others will add some information about. Like the Baby Belgianette that Bill has and some of the other weird bullets that Bill has pictured in Tom's book.

[acwbullets]

The Dabney Maury looks like someone screwed up a cherry and didn't get the lines quite right. Isn't this just another three ringer? Of course TM three ringers are going to be different because they were made by different people. While some choose to collect all the three ringer variants, I choose to stick to the obvious variants. Otherwise I would have boxes of them.

[Bill Ewing]

Seems like I better take some pictures of my bullets from my article and in the collection for this thread.  Hmm - weekend work ahead.

[ETEX]

Bill, looking forward to seeing your pics of your collection. I know Tom photographed or had you take pics but still looking forward to seeing the different bullets in your collection from the Trans-Mississippi.

[ETEX]

I have been talking to an old time digger about the Trans-Mississippi Bullets and I threw some questions at him on his thoughts on what constitutes a Trans-Mississippi Bullet. I listed several bullets that I placed in the Trans-Mississippi category that are not strictly and truely Trans-Mississippi bullets by my thoughts on what constitutes a TM Bullet and he agreed with the assessment. A good example is the MM-291 (known as a British Sea Service for years). This bullet has been dug in Louisiana but also a pretty good number have come out of Mississippi. Maybe this bullet should be classifed as a bullet utilized in the TM but it is not a true TM Bullet. Another example is the Texas Troops Bullet with the majority being dug in Corinth but Steve Burgess having dug several in Arkansas. Personally on the Texas Troops I believe it to be a TM Bullet with the Texas Troops taking them to Corinth with them. A bullet I didn't even list or photograph for the thread are the MM-263 through 267 or French Triangular could/should fall into a bullet utilized in the TM but also elsewhere. Large numbers have come out of Louisiana as well as this bullet coming out of the Wishing Well and at sites in the Eastern Theatre. A question for you Razorbacks are any of the French Pattern dug in your neck of the woods.
  It can get down right confusing on some of these bullets like the States Guard Minie dug by Steve in Arkansas but I have a 44 Caliber Tennessee Rifle bullet dug in Corinth and have heard of a couple dug in the Eastern Theatre.

The MM-268 Tie Ring Enfield (some folks are gonna cringe at that) is a bullet I believe was used mainly in the TM but I also know of a couple out of Shiloh and would like to hear where anyone else has dug them or have a good providence on locations.

What I will go on record for saying is the Marshall Texas Enfield, Tom Green Enfield, TME (Trans-Mississippi Enfield), Baby Hawg, Arkansas Hawg, Hindman, Churchill, Sterling Price, Baby Belgian, Fagan, Cosmopolitan II, CSA 4 Ringer, Rocker Base Sharps, MM-301 Mississippi Rifle Bullet will all fit the bill as true hard core Trans-Mississippi Bullets.

Let's here some thoughts on this. I may have left some out or missed some but it's late and I just got in from a tough shift at work.

[emike123]

Michael particularly, but the others as well:

This is a terrific thread and thank you for the time and effort you are spending on it.  I hope to have more time now that I am home to consider all this information and assist with some pictures.  In the meantime, my kudos on your work to shed light on this area of bullet study that has heretofore not gotten the attention it deserves.

[misipirelichtr]

To answer one of your specific questions, I have two tie ring enfields recovered north of Vicksburg. 

[emike123]

My tie ring Enfield was recovered very near the Shiloh Church at Pittsburg Landing

[ETEX]

Thanks for the kind words.

I like the inputs on the Tie Ring Enfield so it is definitely a Mississippi River bullet.

Does anyone know of any dug in the Eastern Theatre?

[Skip]

Mike and All,

This is the only Tie Ring Enfield that I've ever dug here in Arkansas nor have I heard of any others being dug in the state. Unfortunately it was fired and no drops were found. It came from a site near Des Arc on the White River where there was alot of Confederate activity in 1862. The few others I've seen personally came from early War sites in Tennessee. They may have been produced at the Baton Rouge Armory before the city fell.

Also found a French (M&M 265) on a combined Confederate infantry and cavalry camp that was occupied in 1864 near Camden. A few hundred bullets were dug from the camp but this was the only French.

Prior to the fall of Vicksburg and Port Hudson the TM Dept. was dependent on their sister states east of the Mississippi River for arms and ammuntion. It wasn't until mid-1862 that they began to establish arsenals capable of mass production (probably because of the loss of the Baton Rouge Arsenal). The bullets that are unique to the TM start showing up on late 1862 sites or later.

[ETEX]

Skip
Great information. I didn't realize how tough the MM-268 Tie Ring was to find until I really started looking for one. I was fortunate to have obtained one from a forumite but I am always in the upgrade mode. Again, thanks for the information.

[acwbullets]

Mike,

A few examples have been found in the Fort Fisher area. I know of one that came from the water there. All the ones I have seen have a very tiny teat in the cavity. So small I wouldn't call it a tead but a bump.

[Big Lefty]

I'm not convinced that Tie-ring Enfields were a staple in the TMD.  Have a couple been found?  Perhaps, but their origin is likely the Cis-Mississippi.  As for French triangular base bullets, they are found on rare occasions in Arkansas, primarily in Confederate camps from 1864.  Not sure what their frequency is in LA, TX, MO, or the former Indian Territory.  While they certainly were used in the TMD, I don't consider them a "true" TMD bullet.

To me a "true" TMD bullet is one that is rarely, if ever, found in significant quantities east of the Mississippi.  Such bullets  include the MTE, 2-ring "Mississippi" (we need to come to a consensus on a better name for this one), "Arkansas Hog," "Sterling Price," "Cosmo Type II" (need a consensus on a better name for this one as well), "Tom Green," "Baby Belgian," "Baby Austrian," "Fagan," "Four-ringer," etc.