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Author Topic: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;  (Read 16110 times)

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« on: August 01, 2012, 05:58:27 PM »
To All Interested:
     Since two of our last posts were  discussed on the Bormann Fuse,  I woujld like to illustrate one of three known C.S. Time Fuse adapters that were supposed to have replaced use of the Borman time fuse by the C.S. in 1862.
The substitute fuse was designed to screw into the support plug hole with a gasket under the head
Regards,
John
P.S. Why aren't more found?
Double click the image for larger view.
I have assigned a nmbner to each of the three know fuses for reference, they have no meaning except for my filing until an agreed name is arrived at.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 04:26:35 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

emike123

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 09:41:47 PM »
I suppose the reason few are recovered is because CS discontinued making cannon balls with fuse holes to accept the Bormann fuse after they were told to stop using their own Bormann fuses. The regular, common CS copper ball fuse adapter operates on the same principle and yet is more economical in its use of copper

Another nice drawing, John....that fuse adapter looks very familiar ;-)

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 11:17:46 AM »
Mike,
   Thank you for the kind words. I am working on a thrird model.  The major differences in these 3 fuses is the length of the body threads. The fuse heads a massive when compared to other fuse adapters. A rare find! 
     I wish I could remember where I read about a 12 pdr exploding as a Bormann fuse was being removed.
     This surely was an arsenal event under controled conditions than those found in the field.
     My thanks also to Jack Melton for images.
Best Regards,
John

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2012, 02:36:00 PM »
Pete,
    Since you can probably help me out with some suggestions.  Would you kindly look at the below shell and tell me if I have it accurately depicted.
     The fuse adapter was drawn from a real fuse and is shown above, however, I don't have a sectioned C.S. shell to ensure the accurate placement of the substitute fuse in the fuse hole.  Thanks
Regards,
John

P.s. Pete we just sent it back to the arsenal for rework.  They couldn't fix the color.
Oh and I used your image on page 413 of your revised edition to place the gasket on the unedited drawing.  :)
John
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:53:13 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

emike123

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 05:53:57 PM »
Here is one with an iron sideplug in it.  Sibeloader plug is back where the goop is under the lower right side of the fuse adapter.  This being a case shot (owing to the sideplug) the walls are thinner than your depiction which is more like the shell wall thickness of a common shell.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 05:55:02 PM by emike123 »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2012, 08:50:18 PM »
Mike,
  I meant it to be a shell and not a case shot.
Darn if you don't have everything.  How abot a high res of it.
Below is a perspective view of the No. 2 fse abobe.  Main difference is a shorter thread length.
Regards,
John
Hey guys I post this stuff to try and generate a long thread.

Pete George

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 12:19:10 PM »
John D. Bartleson Jr. wrote:
> Pete, since you can probably help me out with some suggestions.
> Would you kindly look at the below shell and tell me if I have it accurately depicted.

  I'm still on pain-meds for the two stones which are still stuck in my right kidney. But I'll do the best I can to answer your request.  Please note, the following comments are intended as FRIENDLY suggestions, not as nit-picking.

1- The actual fuze head's top is flat, but your diagram shows a dome-shaped head.
2- Your diagram shows the fuze's color as yellow brass.  The actual fuze is made of copper, so it should not be a yellow color in the diagram.
3- In your diagram, you show the fuze head's color as yellow brass, and the fuze's threaded section as a brown-ish color.  All parts of this fuze should be the same color (copper-colored).
4- In actuality, the threading on the "main" part of a Bormann fuzehole AND its underplug hole are the same... specifically, 12 threads-per-inch.  But your diagram has very "fine" threading on the fuze, looking like 24 threads-per-inch.  The fuze's threading should be the same as the iron threads (12-per-inch).
5- Two of the three versions of this fuze have a non-threaded "tail" section below the threaded section.  Your diagram shows the tail-less (Selma-made) version ...which is by FAR the rarest of the three versions.  For visual clarity, I'd suggest putting a "smooth-tailed" version in the diagram ...but of course, you can show whichever version you wish in your diagram.
6- In your diagram, the leather gasket is the same width as the threaded section of the fuzehole.  That depiction leaves the entire gasket-rebate "empty."  The Confederate "extra-wide" leather gasket would entirely fill (or very nearly fill) the gasket-rebate.

Regards,
Pete

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 01:37:55 PM »
Pete,
 , I will take them in good taste.:)
Best Regards,
John
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:10:17 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 01:42:50 PM »
Below were my models for the color renderings:
John
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:12:30 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 03:04:46 PM »
To All for thought;
     I have noticed on several Of Pawl's sectioned 12 pdrs with Borrmann fuses,  that the support plug was not screwed in flush with the bottom of the fuse hole,  but stuck up several threads proud.  This certainly would not permit the fuse to seat flat on its gasket and might even stove in the bottom of fuse on setback. Both these conditions could , perhaps, cause a premature detonation in the bore or shortly after leaving it.
      I don't have a mint condition shell and support plug to check if it could even be screwed in to far as to lose support for the fuse.  Another possible cause.
    Additionally, if gunners were instructed to bottom the fuse,  the support plug could conceiveably push in the soft fuse bottom.  Comments?
Regards,
Johns

Pete George

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 06:38:00 PM »
  I'd say that is a very good insight about one of the likely causes of prematue detonation by a Bormann fuze.  Here's a "halfsection" photo showing a Bormann fuze's support-plug (underplug) not being screwed down "flush" with the support-shelf at the bottom of the main fuzehole.

Regards,
Pete

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2012, 06:50:05 PM »
Thanks Pete,
   That is exactly what I am seeing in Mr. Pawl's sectioned shells.
Regards,
John

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 06:56:50 PM »
Pete,
  I am confused.  On page 413 of your revised book you state that the Bormann fuse was replaced by a 'brass' fuse plug and there is no rebate in the shell fuse hole. ??
Regards,
John

Pete George

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 09:30:02 PM »
Your confusion about that is understandable.  Here are the answers:
  In the 1993 Edition of the book, I updated every page of the Field Artillery projectiles section.  Due to time-pressure to meet the publication date, I was unable to update most of the Fuzes section.  So, what is on page 413 was written by Tom Dickey in 1979.  (The drawing was done by his son Tom Jr. in that same year.  At that time, I had not yet been able to convince Tom that there was a visible difference between US-made and CS-made Bormann fuzes, and also the fuzeholes.  Tom had not checked the metal-content of the Bormann-Replacement fuzeplugs.  All the ones I've checked have turned out to be made of copper.  I suppose a brass version may exist, but I think it's not very likely, for a logical reason.  By Summer 1863 brass had become too scarce in the Confederacy for making one-time-use items like "simple-type" artillery fuzeplugs ..unless there was a very important reason to use brass for the fuzeplug.

  The only version of Bormann-Replacement fuzeplug that I haven't personally checked the metal-content of is the super-rare Selma screwdriver-slotted version.  Is anybody here who owns one of those willing to make a little scrape on it to see whether the metal is brass instead of the usual copper like the non-Selma versions I've checked?

Regards,
Pete 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 10:54:46 AM by Pete George »

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: C. S. Substitute Bormann Fuse Adapter;
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2012, 09:59:57 PM »
Interesting Pete, When you scrape a copper fuse plug is it like a new penny beneath?
I think brass is a mx of copper with about 5% plus of zinc. I would have thought they would use brass which is harder than copper.  Either stands up over the years. :-\
Best Regards,
John