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Author Topic: MM Commentary 150 through 202  (Read 8564 times)

ETEX

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MM Commentary 150 through 202
« on: December 25, 2011, 05:02:44 PM »
Hey gang, I had this typed up and ready to go and thought many of you will be off tomorrow and this will give ya something to browse over.

MM-150 through MM-202 with comments on these bullets. Mike, Jim, Wes, and I have been posting our thoughts and comments on the MM bullets and I believe there are many collectors and diggers that can offer information on some of these bullets. I also believe there are some, maybe many, which totally disagree with what any of us post. I welcome comments on each of the bullets.


MM 150 – 31 Caliber Walch Revolver

MM 151 – Yikes. I don’t believe this is ACW Period. Almost looks like a Brunswick that was a river find after rolling around for the last 150 plus years.

MM 152 – Confederate Slug Ball. Believe most have come from Blockade Runners. I would like to hear dig locations of this bullet.

MM 153 – 157 Some more of the numerous varieties of picket bullets.

MM 158 - Not an ACW Period Bullet.

MM 159 – Vandenburgh Volley Gun with only dropped specimens being found and coming from the Fort Fisher area. I have never seen a fired MM-159 (open to information) and known as the double ended Whitworth in the MM.

MM 160 – if a period bullet it would be a variety of the picket bullet. The only bullet close to this I have seen for sale have all been claimed to be water finds, have no patina and have no sprue. I do not have one in my collection nor am I looking for one.

MM 161/162 – fired/carved.

MM 163 – Picket

MM 164 – 36/38 Caliber Walch for the Lindsay Revolver. I need one for my collection (help)(please)(beg)(grovel) if anyone has a spare. I only ever see the MM-150 for sale.

MM 165 – I believe this is a CS Pistol bullet. I have several with minor variations to shape and size and dug from CS camps.

MM 166/167 – Single shot pistol bullet. Both the same bullet with just variants on size.

MM 168 through 176 the great Confederate Gardner Bullet. What is there to say on this great bullet except it does not have an insert and is a crimped bullet. The MM-168 (69 Caliber) comes in the deep cavity and shallow cavity with shallow cavity specimens more prevalent. The 69 caliber had far less numbers produced as compared to the 54 to .577/58 caliber. The MM-176 may have been produced for the muzzleloading carbine. These things are tall, medium, and short with bulb nose, cut slant noses, rolled noses, one groove, two grooves, compound grooves, thin grooves, wide grooves, deep grooves, shallow grooves, high base, low base, dot base, circle base, partially crimped, not crimped and all types of shapes and sizes. The blow through Gardner is a great bullet for the collection and comes in too many unique shapes to count. Every Gardner in my collection measures differently. This bullet can be a collection of its own with the uniqueness of each of the bullets. To see the number of shapes, sizes, and variations just check out the M&M, T&T Handbook, RBTRF IV, and “Some Civil War Bullets” for photos of the differences in this bullet.

MM 178 through 196 Sharps Ringtails

With new information being published it appears the Ringtail Sharps (old style) had become somewhat obsolete around 1859 and became one of the bullets of choice for the Confederates with the availability of the moulds.

MM 178 – old style Sharps with a fourth ring located high on the nose.

MM 179 – old style Sharps with new information attributing this bullet to the Nashville, Arsenal.

MM 180 – New information and research has now attributed this bullet to the Selma Arsenal.

MM 181 – Fired and appears to be extremely light fired without major flattening of the raised bands.

MM 182, 183, 186, 187, 188, 189, and 190 all are just different sizes of the old style Sharps.

MM 184 – old style with this appearing to be a variant of the MM 179 with just a slight sharper nose. The MM 179 is one of my favorite style sharps and I have looked for years for a close variant that matches up to the MM 184 for my collection. Here I go again, groveling and begging for someone that may have several that are close matches to the MM-184 to keep me in mind. I have looked for years and not had any luck in finding one even close. Must be one of those special Mac Mason bullets.

MM 185 – old style with basically a flat base and extremely faint raised bands.

MM 191, 192, 193, and others have been recovered with diameters ranging from .368 to .570. Known as the Multi-Groove Sharps this bullet style was attributed to patent of E. Gomez and W. Mills of New York. The bullets come in a variant with most having a raised band above and below the rings but some without the raised band at the top of the rings. The majority of these Multi Groove Sharps come out of Missouri, Arkansas, Western Tennessee, and Northern Mississippi.

MM 194 – 198 range in size from .415 to .486 and have been attributed to being used in the Sporting Sharps. Some claim this to be a civilian bullet, but with that said they have been dug in numerous battle sites. I will let someone with a little more knowledge on the 194 through 198 jump in and provide more detailed information. I have each in my collection and they will remain in the collection.

MM 199, 200, 201 – Known in the collecting world as Carcano’s or Garibaldi’s for years it has now been referenced and documented as a bullet produced at the NCIDDB (North Carolina Institute for the Deaf, Dumb, and Blind. A great confederate bullet with the 199 (69 caliber), the 200 (58 Caliber), and the 201 (54 Caliber) and again associated and found in areas of North Carolina Troops and Units. The 58 caliber is the scarcest of the three with the 69 caliber found in limited quantities showing serrations on the surface of the raised bands as shown in RBTRF IV Bullet # 561. The serrations make a great bullet  second 69 Caliber to add to your collection.
 



Jim T

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Re: MM Commentary 150 through 202
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 12:40:37 PM »
151 -- Crimean War Brunswick bullet as stated.  Probably not a "river find" however, as the "ears" are intact.  This gray color is typical of the patina found on bullets from over yonder.

152 -- I suspect that these were case shot to be used in shells.  I too have heard that these came from blockade runner wrecks.

164 -- .36 caliber (not .38) Walch.   This and #150 were both for the Walch Revolver.  J.P. Lindsay was the guy who made the revolvers.  These were ingenius, if not dangerous, weapons.  They could fire 12 shots from the standard 6-hole cylinder configuration.  Worth reading up on!

165 -- I believe this either a short-pour or for a .28 or .31 cal. pocket model revolvers.  If the latter, it doesn't surprise me that the base is boogered-up because the sprue cannel in the mould is about as big as the bullet, so is hard to trim uniformly. 

181 -- Not sure about this one.  Fired?  Looks like a 3-ringer...perhaps a 3-ringer cast in a mould without proper base plug?

194-198 -- Sharps as stated above.  The distinctions I have made on these comes from the pattern of rifle, or from the moulds that were sold to the military vs. civilian market.

199 -- From NCIDDB in Raleigh, NC.  We know that the 6th NC used this ammunition.

 :)

Jim T

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Re: MM Commentary 150 through 202
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 08:41:36 PM »
152 -- Wes, how can you tell if one of these is fired from a musket vs. a case shot?

176 -- Dean thinks these were indeed made for carbines.  However, the Hall only fired round balls.  And not in .58

Jim T

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Re: MM Commentary 150 through 202
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 12:53:12 PM »
I think these were just an early-war "fill-in" while Richmond was deciding on proper carbine ammunition.  If Dean's theory is right, it's just a matter of casting lighter bullets for carbines that could be made into cartridges using equipment already on hand....that being Gardner cartridge presses.

tom buckley

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Re: MM Commentary 150 through 202
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2011, 02:41:21 PM »
This is just my opinion, but I believe that the MM 176 One Ring Gardner was intended for a muzzle loading carbine which would explain the cavity. Also, wouldn't a lighter bullet produce less recoil which might have been a consideration?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 10:39:10 PM by tom buckley »