Tools & Sights

[Pete George]

  Uh-oh.  Are there any markings on that vent-pick?  I'm asking because there are lots of 1866-to-1917 Muzzleloader artillery tools, sites, and other artillery accouterments still hanging around ...and some of them have wrongly been sold as civil war era.

  For example, among the frequently seen Postwar artillery tools is a vent-pick for a US 12-inch caliber Mortar.  That cannon did not exist in 1865.  The vent-pick for it is usually (but not always) marked "12M".

  Markings -- and knowledge of what they actually mean -- are very  important for accurately time-dating many kinds of relics ...and especially, artillery tools, sites, and accouterments.

Regards,
Pete

[alwion]

no completely unmarked as far as I can tell. are different length's indicative of different cannon? (because of the tube diameter). back to, how do you tell CW vs something else?

[scottfromgeorgia]

$25-$40 would be just fine for that piece.

[Dave the plumber]

   actually, that is not a vent pick pictured. I am told it is a tool used when a friction primer broke off in the vent of a gun. It was used to push the broken brass primer tube down into the guns chamber, which then it could be removed with a scraper. The tool could be hammered on to push it down, if necessary, hence made of steel. And, the hole in the middle of the top is there so if the tool gets stuck in the vent, possibly from burnt powder residue jamming it or the broken primer, another tool could be used to slide through the hole and create a 't' handle to pull it up and out or twist it back and forth to work it loose.
   These tools came in two different head styles, a hex head and an octagon, by the way.

  A true vent pick for puncturing a powder bag had flutes on the shaft because after the powder bag was punctured,  the artillerist was supposed to twist the pick opposite the flutes upon removal that way drawing up some of the powder into the vent hole, helping to insure ignition of the friction primer.
   This is what I have been told from others, I wasn't there in '65 !!             David

[alwion]

Ok let me see if I have this straight. this is a knockout tool for a friction primer, which makes sense because of the flat bottom. Puncturing a powder bag would be better for a pointed tool . do we have any idea if its CW or post war? A list of tools would be nice for info. sooooo

1. we have a knockout tool for the primer
2 powder bag puncture, so was that what the 2/10 inch gimlet was for?


 for fuses we have
1. Fuse wrench   IE spanner or slotted
2. Fuse punch   iE Borman
3. Hammer
3 Fuse cutter for paper fuses
5 Lanyard

This of course is only related to the fuse hole, I know there were more tools for sighting and the tube
could someone make a complete list, would be nice to see what the artillerist had to have for tools. I would assume not every tool was for every battery, since some guns would not accept some fusing? or was everyone equiped similar, since after I wrote that kept thinking of exceptions for fuses for most shells

In the movies, they stick in powder, a ball, and touch a wood stick to the fuse hole  lol
Has anyone actually seen a movie using a parrot, james or schenkl type shell, or any rifled shell at all.  all I ever remember was round balls?

[emike123]

Thanks David for the info.  I like being corrected when I learn something like this.

[Pete George]

  The following websites are good places for artillery-equipment collectors to increase their knowledge of modernday Reproductions:
http://www.regtqm.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=22
http://www.historicalordnanceworks.com/implements.htm

  At those website, you'll notice that the dealers (Regimental Quartermaster, and Historical Ordnance Works) are selling several varieties of Reproduction artillery tools ...and at both websites, one of the tools appears to be an exact duplicate of the unmarked vent-punch posted by Alwion.  A year in the ground is all that's needed to make it look "old."

  Please take the time to closely examine all of the various tools/implements at the two websites ...and be sure to click the "larger photo" option for viewing them.

  I should mention that the Regimental Quartermaster and the Historical Ordnance Works are not nearly the only dealer/seller of Reproduction artillery implements & tools.

  I should also mention that various makers have been manufacturing Reproduction artillery tools & implements for use by the NSSA (North-South Skirmish Association) reenactors & Competition Shooters ever since the early 1960s.  So, that old Repro equipment is now "naturally" old-looking, without any artificial aging being applied to it.

  And please keep in mind Emike's recent posting about Reproduction wood-handled fuzewrenches with a US marking which is burned into the wood handle.

  I don't mean to be a spoilsport.  My only intention is to share the Knowledge, to help collectors protect themselves.

Regards,
Pete

[alwion]

anything once made can be made again. used to be only high end items, when you could pick up an original for a couple bucks, nobody bothered with a repro, now they seem to reproduce everything   I feel at a loss without hands on class's from someone to ever tell originals from repros. so sad.

[CarlS]

No better teacher than exposure and experience.  Arrange to see museums, collections of those that will share them, and go to shows.  There is a bit of everything at the shows.

[alwion]

c. Drew & co was a known ww2 Fuse wrench maker,  did he make any as early as CW?  ebay 250960607955 is an example.  Looking at it, it looks too early to be ww2, but a simple spanner is a simple spanner and theres only so many designs

[emike123]

That fuse wrench is a POS...see what Pete has to say about the wood handled ones above.

[Selma Hunter]

Gentlemen (well, almost) -

Greetings & Happy New Year.  Just a few notes for the record from an amateur observer.  The vents on many guns were actually machined copper inserts that had a short section of thread near the top of the insert (think 'top of a Schenkl fuze stock with a tube about a foot long out the bottom').  These inserts were made so as to be replaceable when the vent became too eroded.  When installed the vent tube would be soldered in (silver or platinum) and this ensured that the gun tube would achieve a longer service life.  The NOMINAL diameter of the vent hole was .20".  As per the specifications of the day the NOMINAL maximum diameter of the Quill Primers and Friction Primers was .18" max.  Otherwise you have a situation wherein the guy priming the gun has to force a .20 priming device into a .20 hole - hmmmmmmm  - a tight fit for sure and not exactly conducive to function under combat conditions.  So, with a "windage" of .02 the gunners had a little wiggle room.  Recall that while a friction primer would ostensibly clear the vent as a result of the gas discharge in firing there was always a problem with residue just as in the bore of a musket (cannon powder was really coarse stuff compared to rifle/musket powder).  Even gun crews fighting on open decks would find themselves black with soot after an engagement of any consequence.  The firing of large guns was normally and usually undertaken with quill primers - not friction primers - as a first choice.  Friction primers were specified as "backup" for applications afloat.  Army applications may or may not have defaulted to friction primers as a first choice based on availability of quill primers.  Dahlgrens' treatise of 1853 on gun lock and priming devices is a great "go-to" on this whole topic. I've shown a gun lock (w/Dahlgrens improvements) for reference.  In the following photos note the three distinctly different "styles" of quill primers then in use.  Also, you will see the obvious outline of the vent liner in a Selma DB Brooke rifle (S-5 - a 7") with a coin for comparison.  Lastly, one rare if not unique metallic quill primer - a loaded Selma metallic.  Questions?  I'll try my best to answer timely if able.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Bill,
Very informative, thank you.  Any details of how the Navy lock operated?
Regards,
John

[Selma Hunter]

Howdy, Cuz -

Happy New Year to you both!

The locks were totally manual - no springs or tension devices whatsoever.  Beyond the camming action produced by the pulling on the lanyard there is no other "power" involved.  The officers regularly drilled the gun crews on the operation of the gun locks with much attention paid to the "feel" of the pulling of the lanyard.  It was a matter of practice/drill and when you actually handle a lock the function becomes obvious and amazingly simple.  There is a photo of a Dahlgren lock recovered from Mobile Bay attached here.  It may be a little easier to see than the drawing from the Dahlgren treatise.

I'm not sure that I've answered your question but the function is really simple.

Bill

 

[ETEX]

Great thread guys. I am a bullet collector and this information is interesting and fantastic reading. Jack those are great photos of the wrenches in use. Keep this kind of posting up and Mike will have an easier time at converting me to artillery. Great job and great info.