What did black powder in a shell look like?

[CarlS]

I thought y'all might find this a bit interesting and we haven't had a new topic in a few days so here goes....  

I had an unpunched 24 pounder Bormann cannon ball that a friend wanted disarmed.  The person who drilled it took it out from under the drill and just poured the powder on a blue plastic container lid.  Literally the whole contents of the shell (common shell; not case) poured out.   Very little was left when I washed it out.  I thought some of you might like to see how the artillery powder looked as it was loaded about 150 years ago.  I don't know the recovery provenience on the projectile.  As I said this shell was unpunched and presumably non-fired although dug.  This is probably the biggest reason the powder was still loose inside as a fired shell typically has the powder compressed in the bottom on being fired and, if it hits something hard before it goes off, the powder compresses in the nose on impact.   This was nice and loose and you can see the powder grains clearly in the close up image.  The grain size was very important for its effectiveness and you won't see this in powder that's gotten very damp or wet.

Note the powder came out of the Bormann in the front right of the group shot.  I happened to have this group shot of some pretty neat shells I'm in the process of cleaning so included it for anyone who may not know what a Bormann is.

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[CarlS]

Additional Pics..

[Garret]

Thanks Carl.  I have several shells that still have a little black powder in them that come out of the drill hole if you tap it.  Is this something to be concerned about?  I always worry about it if someone from law enforcement finds out about my stash of artillery shells. 

[Dave the plumber]

    did you try lighting any of it up ??

[CarlS]

The only right answer is that it needs to be cleanly washed out so there is no powder left.  Otherwise it's not fully disarmed.  The residue in yours might not be enough to do anything and may not even be flamable any more but it would be hard convincing authorities that blow up bolts and wood fused shells.  I wash mine with a high power water nozzle, soak for a day or so and wash again then repeat until clear water is all that drains out.  A forum member who I'll let speak up since I haven't talked to him about it has found that sudsy amonia helps break down the powder faster and makes it wash out easier.  I plan to try that.  Then when they are washed good I set them out in the sun to dry out.  That takes a while especially on a larger shell.

Also, as an aside, you want to be sure and have a hole large enough to wash it out.  I personally don't think it's practical to do a sufficient job wshing out with a 1/4 inch hole.  I request a 3/8 on most shells and 1/2 on the larger ones and those are hard enough to wash out.  Most shells don't have loose powder and it's often compacted.

[Abdula the Butcher]

Heck, how about a one inch hole!
I tried burning the powder that came out of mine, and barely got a sparkle.  It would take an acetylene torch with a rosebud tip to burn the stuff.  It too was a well sealed unpunched shell.  The only difference is mine got wet and was dried out in the sun for a few days.......... By the way, how did you drill that shell without getting the powder wet

[CarlS]

I agree that bigger is better but 1-inch on those smaller shells would nearly core them!    It would be so much easier to wash them out though.    I use a 1/4-inch nozzle to ensure adequate wash and you need room around that for the water and powder to pass going back out of the shell at a good rate.  Ideal is a 1/2-inch hole but 3/8-inch seems to work well enough.  It also looks more disarmed to any authority who is questioning it.

I've found the same as you regarding powder taken from a shell.  Much of it won't burn if it's been damp or wet.  Some does burn but seems to me that it doesn't burn with the ferocity that I'd expect so I think it's at least weakened.  But, of course, there is still some powder with enough power to blow up shells which we've unfortunately come to know in recent years.

How do we keep it dry?  The obvious... The driller doesn't put the shell in water or use a drip when drilled.     That way the powder is left dry and some can be shaken out and then you can wash it out when ready to do so and dressed appropriately.  As I'm sure you know the powder stinks when wet and stains skin and clothes and ground so best done somewhere appropriate.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
    Can you describe your drilling procedures?
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

I have a colleague who has a barn out in the woods in a safe place and does the drilling.  A drill press is modified for this function and he uses a long rope to perform the drilling.  He can feel the bit go into the shell so he knows when it's through.  We drill all the way through the shell cavity to ensure a wash wand/nozzle can get to everything.  We have long bits for the longer drilling.

[Abdula the Butcher]

Sounds risky if you're drilling sealed shells .
But as long as you and your buddy are in a safe place during the drilling, I guess only the shell and drill press are at risk 
By the way ..... I was just kidding about the one inch hole 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To All,
     Do we have a chemist that can tell the members if water disolves potassium and sulphur compounds?
The black powder and water produces a paste that stains the skin and clothing.
     Remember that black powder is ignited by heat, shock, friction and of course flame so the object should be to keep the powder wet, not dry. the aim should be to wash it out, not pour the powder from the explosive cavityh.
Regards,
John aka Bart

[Selma Hunter]

Bart -

COLJFB is knowledgeable on the chemical properties & impacts of exposure you mention.

Try a call to him.

Selma Hunter