Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jon,
   The whole purpose of the lead is for it to adhere to the tin and with the two strips of encircling wire, is locked together as one unit.  So as the propellant gases expand the the entire packing of canvas, tin and lead into the grooves of the Bore.
   With regard to the "hot lead" it started to cool as soon as it attached itself to the tin and the cast iron body between the slots.
Regards,
John

[callicles]

Please excuse our ignorance and interruption.  I hope the below pictures might help John, or if not him, at least help us identify what we have.  Maybe it's  relevant to John's query, but I'm not sure.  Anyway, here they are.

These sleeves of lead were found by Forum member Ripcon, and were dug near Union artillery positions, in between Union guns and the enemy position.  I was with him when he found them.  We have never really known what they were for sure -- Civil War, modern, etc.  Reading this very informative thread, I can't help but post them in hopes that it has SOMETHING to do with the James shell as there were James Type I guns near the location of recovery. 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Not having ween the packing after firing I am not certain, however the last one has a lower edge similar to a piece of James.  too thin to be part of other shells that I can think of.  Someone help.
John   Thanks for post.

[CarlS]

The lead is one continuous sleeve around the shell's ribs although I've not seen one where the tin was removed all the way around so I don't know that there isn't a seam from an applied rather than poured sheet.  This continuous lead covering can be seen in some dug non-fired versions where the tin rusted off leaving only the lead sheathing exposed.  The sabot comes off in trapezoidal pieces as described by Mike due to the ridges on the top of the ribs causing thin spots that naturally allow the lead to easily tear providing consistent shaped pieces.   It is much the same effect as the Mallet cavities in the CS balls.

Regarding what is written in the patents I would add that you have to be careful to assume what is written in the patent is what was used in the manufacturing.  The manufacturer would certainly discover changes that help production but don't (hopefully) hurt the intended use of the product so they change the way the manufacture.  This could have happened after the first 2 or 3 produced.  I can certainly see where something as challenging as the James sabot would lead to changes learned on the shop floor.

[Ripcon]

Callicles, Thanks for helping with the photos of the lead sleeves. I've found about a dozen of these sheared lead sleeves in various contorted conditions. Most all of them are trapezoidal in shape. I'm asking myself - "If these aren't James type I lead sabot pieces, then what else can they be???"

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

    Carl, sorry I assumed you were through  making comments. I agree with you about changes made in patents to suit the manufacturer and there are many examples of this.
I felt the only change they wold have made is to have left the sand core that formed the cage in place in order to eliminate the pasteboard.  That  was why I wanted to see the inside of one of the lead pieces, had the sand been kept in place there would have been minor outlines of the gas inlet ports.   use of the pasteboard wold have left no sign of these ports.
   if they wanted the lead to adhere to the tin sleeve they would have had to  pour the lead into the 4/5 holes on the base. There is no other way that I can think of once that tin sleeve is in position.
  Now am trying to figure out the method of holding the lead over the holes while it poured down into the remaining spaces.
Regards,
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

callicles,
   Can you carefully unfold the lead in the top photo and perhaps reveal the inside providing it is not weather worn. and then photograph  it laying flat.  Tjhanls.
All the Best,
John

[CarlS]

But John it is a relic and the shape is from its use in a moment of history!   You wouldn't want the relic to lose it's history would you?   

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

I guess no comment.
John

[callicles]

John, I will contact Ripcon and ask him. I will try to see if he can make pictures of the underside first without physically changing it. Thanks.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

callicles,  Looking again at the first image of yours it does appear to be made up of pieces stuck together.
As of right now are we even certain that it is from a James? I may just be a hunk of material..lead? for the Civil War or no? I guess you can't peek inside and see what the side opposite the camera  shows.
Regards,
John

[callicles]

John and all,

I spent the 4th with RipCon and family cooking out, and had a wonderful time.  The hamburgers were superb! While there, I took pictures of the backsides of some of the sleeves of lead under discussion on this thread.  Thanks, RipCon! 

Since there are a lot of pictures I will post them in two or three posts, here goes:

There appears to be some sort of a substance trapped in the twisted lead. To my eyes (and to RipCon's) it resembles hard rubber or a charcoal-like substance.  We both believe the substance is indigenous to the lead and not added or formed later.     

[callicles]

More:

This is probably the best view of the substance attached to the lead.

[callicles]

This picture of backsides of other lead specimens does not contained the actual substance, but it appears that the residue of the substance remains smeared on the lead surfaces after all these years.

[callicles]

However, I must add this: Ripcon reminded me while he flipped burgers on the grill and while fire-works exploded around the neighborhood that I had found the below item "near" the vicinity of his sleeved lead items.  He was correct.  25 years ago I, indeed, found this relic near the above pictured lead sleeves.  It was suggested to us that the below pictured item is a base to a Wiard canister round (if you look close you can see the letters forming the word "BASE"). 

But let me add that these lead sleeves pictured above, and the item below, were found near a Union artillery battery, where 4 of the cannon in battery were "James rifles" and two cannon were 6-pounder guns.

So, I don't want to confuse the issue of the James discussion by possibly posting up portions of a Wiard while suggesting the lead sleeves are James items.  RipCon and I just don't know, but offer all this for y'all's review and for our better understanding of what we actually have. 

But I do hope we have contributed something to you guys, even if misplaced. Thanks!