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Author Topic: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;  (Read 34138 times)

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:59:56 PM »
To all Interested,
     The James Type I Projectile
A challenge to the pattern maker and to the molder, The James Type I projectile of the American Civil War was surely a unique piece of ordnance in the Federal arsenal.  Patented by Charles T. James, his death would eventually be caused by the detonation of one of these shells.
   I have marveled at the projectile’s complexity when compared to the rest of the projectiles in use by the Federal artillerist.  The most interesting part of the shell’s design is its method of rotation and propellant gas check.   This is achieved by a sandwich of canvas, tin and lead sleeves that surround the back half portion of the shell body.
   I have pondered over the following questions concerning the casting of the inner most lead sleeve and solicit your thoughts, opinions or facts:
1.  What design was used to form a reservoir for the molten lead being poured into the four (4) entry holes at the shell base; see the lead filled holes at figure 1?
2.  Was the tin sleeve used to form the outer form for the poured lead sleeve?
3.  What was used to keep the molten lead from escaping into the eight slots of the “cage”?
When adding your thoughts on these questions please use my reference numbers in reply.  Thanks.
Kind Regards,
John

CarlS

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 11:10:59 PM »
I've often wondered about that too.  My feeling after thinking about it is after the shell is cast the center open area and the spaces between the columns/legs was packed with the black casting sand.  Then the tin collar was fit over the shell and the small space between it and the legs was injected with lead. I think the ridges on the legs are not to prevent slippage of the sabot as often cited (although they would help with that) but in fact to hold the tin sheath equidistant from the legs so the sabot is equal in thickness.  The notches in the ridges is to help the hot molten lead flow and fill all gaps.  Once cooled the sand is removed and the greased canvas covering is applied to the outside.

So given the above, my guessed answers to your three questions are:
1) Casting sand packed to keep the lead along the periphery.
2) Yes
3) Casting sand packed in the interior spaces to keep the lead out.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 08:47:51 AM by CarlS »
Best,
Carl

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 08:10:26 AM »
Carl, thank you for your input to my queries. Next?
Regards,
John
   If I might add, with regard to question 1 - remember that the lead sleeve is actually formed by pouring molten lead into the 4/5 holes in the base. Picture the pre-cast shell standing on its nose and placed n some sort of stand.
   What shape  Reservoir was placed on/over the shell base to contain the lead while it was flowing into the holes to cast the inner lead sleve? Illustrate if you like.
   I would submit that the  inside of the "cage' was formed by a sand core placed into the original cast of the shell body like the sand core that would form the fuze well and explosive chamber.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 10:00:41 AM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

Ghost of Mac Mason

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 03:05:10 PM »
At one time I was an expert on writing styles.  It is fascinating how this post differs stylistically from your others.  If I did not know better, I might surmise that you were posting this for a fellow mortal too timid (afraid of ghosts perhaps?) to post it for himself.  Ah, but what does a banshee know...

I will go see if I can find General James and ask him of this.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 05:08:46 PM »
Dear Banshee,
     I don't pretend to be an English professor, however, back to my original question.  "I have pondered over the following questions concerning the casting of the inner most lead sleeve and solicit your thoughts, opinions or facts:" ::)
Kind regards,
John
P.S. I also use my real name on this Forum!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 05:20:34 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

CarlS

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 05:09:25 PM »
John,

What I described was meant to convey that the lead flowed into the bottom holes and then into the space between the tin and the packed black sand.
Best,
Carl

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 05:19:35 PM »
Carl,
   Yes I did understand what youmeant.  I elaborated a bit further in hopes to stimulate othes to add some meaningful comments.:)
Kind Regards,
John

Ghost of Mac Mason

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2015, 07:00:55 PM »
Touche, but "ghost' is also a name for those who employ ghost writers.  I consulted my Ouiji Board and sense an article forthcoming in a certain magazine...

Back on topic: I was unable to talk with General James as he is headless from the explosion at his workshop, but my dear friend Mr. Harper provided these sketches:

http://www.nysl.nysed.gov/mssc/ballsbluff/shells.htm

I have some tourists to give their money's worth on their ghost tours at Gettysburg so must be off now...


CarlS

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 07:20:00 PM »
GofMM,

Thanks for the reference.  I should have thought of that very popular illustration.  The pertinent part is shown below but I can't determine enough detail to be sure of any manufacturing process steps.  Given the height of the shells next to the pour and the shape of the enclosure, it appears the shell is sitting base down which makes no sense.  My guess is that this was drawn from a verbal description and not after visiting the factory and thus is rife with inaccuracies.  I'd sure like to see an example of that 24-inch James shown next to the man in the bottom left corner of the full image (not shown below; see link)!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 07:25:28 PM by CarlS »
Best,
Carl

emike123

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 07:29:48 PM »
They must've employed Oompa Loompa's there.  I have this print.  Here is a slightly better shot of the lead pouring pic:

 

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 08:34:39 PM »
Ghost writer,
    thanks for the Harper's enlargement.  Do you have the story? (Caption: Shells and Their Manufacture – (See page 764 [for related story])?
Kind Regards,
John
Mike...  great copy of the lead pouring.  I suspect the top coller, where he is pouring the hot lead, is on the shell base.
Perhas other members can add more?
John again
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 08:40:36 PM by John D. Bartleson Jr. »

jonpatterson

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 09:22:57 PM »
John,

Here is the grand total contents of the article from page 764. Can't say it helps much.

I am glad I can contribute something to you in return for all you have shared with us.

Best regards,
Jon
It is history that teaches us to hope.

Robert E. Lee

CarlS

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2015, 09:36:41 PM »
Time to go hunt Port Royal and find one of the big boys!!!  27 inches tall!
Best,
Carl

Dave the plumber

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 06:35:56 AM »
wouldn't a patent explain the process in some detail ??

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 09:52:16 AM »
Thanks Jon, it is the first time I have seen the story..
Dave, yes the patents do explain the process. Difficult to process at times and even difficult to imagine.  For example in one of the patents James uses "pasteboard" (cardboard?) to fill the open slots ofhe "cage".  I don't belive he states outside or inside the open space between the cage ribs.  I don't have any images that might show remains of any such form. I believe the word "loop" is actually the middle tin sleeve.
Regards,
John