Question about a stamp on a shell...

[Aquachigger]

I recently dug this shell, and while cleaning it, noticed what looks like a "'C" stamped on it. I think it is a 2.87" Read shell based on the lathe dimple and wood fuse (opinions would be welcomed). Also, when I popped out the fuze, the shell was completely empty. I guess someone "forgot" to put powder in it?  But it does kinda look like a "C" to me. Any opinions on what it might mean? Thanks... Beau Ouimette

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

sir;
  Yes I also believe it is either a C or a G     Can we see the fuse adapter after it is cleaned, if you clean them. Not sure what the letter stands for.  Pete may know.
     My question: do lathe dimples in base always mean a Read?  It appears to have a wrought iron sabot.
Regards,
John aka Bart

[Aquachigger]

Thanks John... The fuze is just a drive in wood one. Here is a pic of it, the nose and the base.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Sir,
   Coming out of water it may start to spall and crack open on you.
It is either a Parrott or Read, I never could tell the difference to be certain.
Regards,
John

[Dave the plumber]

          It's a CS Read  - no doubt.       And if it came out of any body of water, swamp,or low wet ground, it needs to be immediately put back in a bucket of water until you can get it to a person that has experience running it through electrolisis to stabilize it. Otherwise, your nice shell will be flaking apart until it is a shadow of it's former self. And it looks like a good one.......
     I am sure if you post where you live, someone on the forums can direct you to a person in your area experienced in preserving the shell for you. It looks like it is worth putting the time, money and effort into it, it's a good relic.
                                     David

[Pete George]

John D. Bartleson wrote:
> My question: do lathe dimples in base always mean a Read?

  I suspect you already know most of the info in the following reply -- but perhaps there's a detail or two that's new. 

  A lathe dimple in the base of that specific model of projectile means it's a Read.  But there are some other CS projectiless which have the lathe dimple.  Also, some yankee types have it ...notably, the James Type 2, and a few 1860/61 US 100-pounder Parrott projectiles.

> It appears to have a wrought iron sabot.

  So far as I know, all of the Read Long-Model projectiles that were manufactured in 1861 and 1862 had an iron sabot.  The earliest evidence of copper-saboted Read projectiles in the Eastern Theater seems to be very-early 1863.  Regarding the earliest usage of copper-saboted Read projectiles in the Western Theater... I've received reports that some have been found in the Shiloh vicinity.  But their time-provance in that vicinity is uncertain, because several of the distinctive frags from 12-pounder Polygonal-cavity shells were dug in the same area, and I'm quite certain no Polygona-cavity roundshells existed in April 1862.

Regards,
Pete

[Pete George]

  Aquachigger, to me the stamping looks like a C, or perhaps a G, but it could also be a Q.  Looks like some encrustation is obscuring the lower right side of the stamping's area.  Can't be certain about what the letter is until the encrustation gets removed.

  I think the mark is highly unlikely to be a G, because in 36 years of observing and researching such markings on projectiles, I've never seen (or heard) of a Read Long-Model projectile with a G on it.

  The stamping on your shell is in an unusual place.  I've never seen a "solitary" letter stamp located on the lower half of a Read Long-Model projectile.

  Please tell us the name of the state the shell was found at.  Also, do you have a guess about the approximate date during the war that your shell wound up at where you found it?

  Dave is right, if that shell was found in saltwater or even "brackish" water, it needs Electrolysis treatment to prevent cracking.  But if it is definitely from freshwater, Electolysis may not be required ...and might even do harm to the shell.  Many shells from the freshwater river at Augusta GA and Milledgeville GA have held up fine (for 20 years) without Electrolysis.  That being said... some of them were "Graphitized," and therefore could not withstand Electrolysis without losing some of their original iron surface.  (Graphitized iron is verry soft, and will "come off" in Electrolysis.)

Regards,
Pete 

[speedenforcer]

Nice shell.  Congrats.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Pete,
   If it is a C then what does it stand for?   There is a Read on the4 Horse Solder and it has a C just above the ogive.
Regards,
John

[emike123]

I do not believe it is a "C" for a few reasons including orientation, look, and location of its placement on the shell.

But to answer John's question, some of the stampings I know of are:

G or Omega: Selma
C: Likely Tredegar
Q: Samson & Pae
D: Atlanta
Star: Charleston or Columbia Arsenal

I have been told that somewhere there is a list of these codes for the various confederate arsenals, but I have not seen it.  I believe Pete and Howard Aligood were at one time working on a much more comprehensive list.  There are other stampings out there including but not limited to: I, F, H, backwards S, T, AR, and A.  Except for "AR" most of the locations associated with these are not known to me nor others that I am aware of.   People can guess as to regions however due to where the various marked ordnance pieces are found.

This could be a very interesting thread if folks would post up about it.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
Thank you for the letter meanings.  But where did you  get those from?
Regards,
John

[emike123]

In the cases of Atlanta and Selma, projectiles were recovered at the arsenal with those markings.  The Samson & Pae attribution is because a shell marked Samson & Pae also had a "Q" stamp on it.  The Tredegar association is a bit looser and I'll let Pete tell about that one if he chooses too.

"F" markings are found on things in Southern Virginia and North Carolina which leads me to think that they are from a manufacturer in that area.  Other markings are too rare to really even do much more than guess what they mean.

[Aquachigger]

Hey Guys... Thank for the comments. I cleaned it up a little more, and before I destroy it completely, this is what I ended up with. At one point, I could see what appeared to be another letter to the left of this one that appeared to be another "C" or the top to an "S". It's gone now though  

Pete... I found this in an area that saw artillery work in at least '62 and '63.

I have already run this through electrolysis. It is a "soft" shell hence the the way it turned out.
I do have more stampings on shells, but they are all on large navy shells.

I hope I have answered all the questions. If anyone has any more, fire away!

Thanks for all of the help.... Beau Ouimette  

[PIA]

Am enjoying this topic.  Knew there were one or two letters stamped on artillery projectiles, but did not realize there were so many.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Digger,
Why not show the other stampings you have?
John