Large caliber round found Air Force EOD takes possesion

[Jim J.]

The odds are the shell that was fired into Charleston, is an 8" Parrott round.  We all know that there were two different weights for these rounds, the 150# and the 200#.  Please could somebody let me know the two differing length measurements for these shells, so that I will know what round we have to inert.  There is also the interesting question as to whether or not we have an incendiary shell.  The base of the shell is concreted and covered with mud/clay, so there is no quick observation to make to see if there is the head of a base plug?  Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I assume the large incendiary shells were filled through the base plug and not a side plug?  This is something that I would like to know before inerting, as if it is an incendiary shell - the position of the hole(s) changes.  The EOD guys are loath to remove any concretion from the outside, until the shell has been inerted - for safety reasons. 
Your comments are appreciated as always.
Jim J.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jim,
    It should be okay to gently remove the concretions from the base, however if they chose not to then they can use their small IED radiograph equipment to x-ray the growth.
    I recall, from Abbot plates that there is one type of Parrott that has an upper chamber cast into the upper portion to hold the powder after the lower chamber has been filled with the incendiary mix. Hmm, on second thought after looking again at the plates that they were smaller calibers and information to have in your file.  The large caliber should be constructed in the same manner. I cleaned several 6.4 inch incendiary shells while at EODU#2 in Charleston, SC that were dug up during construction.
Regards,
John

[Jim J.]

John,
You are wonderful source of information, Thank you!  Looking at your drawing (even though it is for a 9 pdr), it becomes very apparent that we have an interesting dilemma as to where one drills an inerting hole.  One needs to intersect the midline of the "upper" powder chamber, so as to facilitate cleaning the interior cavity.  Once the powder is removed, we can safely sample the incendiary chamber and figure out the composition of the liquid (?).  However, with different sized shells the wall thickness varies, and the interior separating wall can be located higher or lower in the shell.  I would like to minimize the number of holes we drill to one, and then I can assess the base bolt and possibly remove it.!
So, if any of you have an 8" incendiary shell hidden away, please let me know where the interior wall is located.
Many Thanks in advance.
Jim J.

[redbob]

I believe that both the 6.4" and the 8" Parrot Incendiary Shells came in both single and double cavity models, I say this because I have a 6.4" that is only a single cavity. If they are a single cavity, am I correct in thinking that the incendiary mixture was mixed with the black powder?

[CarlS]

From the CivilWarArtillery.com site the differing Parrott lengths are:
    200-lber Short Pattern: 16.5 Inches  (http://civilwarartillery.com/hap/page192.htm)
    200-lber Long Pattern: 19.75 Inches (http://civilwarartillery.com/hap/page193.htm)
    300-lber: 23 Inches
I just bought a 200-lber short yesterday and it is maybe a bit over 16.5 inches tall.  That length does not include the bolt in the bottom of the one I got.

I've never heard of any side plug in a Parrott shell; only fuse holes and bolts or rivets in the bottom.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jim,
   somewhere, and it has been so long, I have heard, not a good reference, that a hole was cast in the partition partition was an open hole when the sand was removed.  The incendiary mix was funneled in first, the hole plugged with a substance. probably wood, then the powder was measured in the top chamber through the fuse hole.
  I normally don't post, I've heard "I heard".  I want to say its from John Biemick, but I will call him to check.
     It was Biemick, John advised Sam White about the plugged partition and it was in a 6.4 inch shell (100 pdr..). .John should publish his two books on C.S.A. and U.S. riflled ordnance. We would like images of the fuze/fuse to determine which, as not too many of the incendiary shells survived.
   The Marines will probably have to drill from the side just below the to get at the black powder and a second hole along side the bolt to determine if the contents is powder or the mix.  It is also a chance that the incendiary mix  has cotton waste to assist in scattering the mix  and in its burning.  I'll bet he has powder from to to bottom. the mix, when filled with cotton is a job to clean out.
   The illustration shows the original purpose of the base hole.
Thanks.
Regards,
John
P.S.  John might be able to answer your question about the partition's position.
P.P.S. mixing black powder with the mix would destroy its normal function to burn than if it were dry.

[CarlS]

Looking closely at the nose-view image that Jim posted of the 200-lber in question, it certainly appears to me to be the remains of a one-piece percussion fuse.  You can make out the line where the threads are for the center cap. 

In Jack Bell's heavy artillery book, he shows a percussion fuse on both the 100-lber and 200-lber incendiary shells.  Does anyone know of an incendiary shell with a time fuse?

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jim,
   Why the two holes drilled on each side of the percussion fuze??
John

[Jim J.]

Thanks to all for the slew of information on the shell.  Having to wait another week to ten days is killing me.  The Air Force EOD still have to transfer the shell to the Marines at Ft. Beaufort, and this is supposed to happen soon.  I have been invited up to watch the inerting, so I will take lots of photo's - and post.
John / Bart, the two holes on either side of the fuze are "dimples" or depressions in the concretion.  The EOD guys have not attempted any drilling. 
Carl, the "short" version of the 8" round, would that be the 150# Naval shell, as opposed to the long 200# Army shell?
Will take note of the potential cotton, and have the interior sampled and analyzed.
Thanks again,
Jim J.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To all,
    It was recently discussed how to tell the size of a Parrott  shell by measuring the circumstance. Here is a quicker way: by measuring the width of the band base to tip of the band projection.

100 pdr base to tip - 1.34 inches
200 pdr base to tip - 1.58 inches
300 pdr base to tip - 2.00 inches

Compliments of Skip Keith of James Island, SC
Regards,
John
 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hello J9im,
   this post started in December 2014, is the shell finished?
Regards,
John

[pipedreamer65]

Concur, it should clean up nicely.  Good job saving it!

[Jim J.]

John - Bart, This shell has been a real challenge in many ways.  The shell is currently still with the Air Force EOD team in Charleston, who are in the process of transferring it to the Marines at Ft. Beaufort.  They have agreed to inert it, and pass it on to the Lab where I work for conservation. As soon as I get my hands on it, I will post pictures and give an accurate description of the shell and fuze. 
Jim J.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

I guess everything changes.  they have had enough time to eat it.
John