Who designed the Tennessee Sabot?

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Since we usually name projectiles, fuzes and sabots after the person who designed/invented them, who did the Tennessee Sabot (old Mullane) and why do we call it by a state name?
Dumbfounded!
John

[CarlS]

I'll provide a quick answer based on the info in Dickey and George's 1993 Field Artillery Projectiles book page 197:

• Identification of this projectile is primarily based on a report from Commander John M. Brooke, Office of Ordnance and Hydrography, Richmond, Virginia to S.R. Malloy, Secretary of the Navy, C.S.A. dated January 1863.  Brooke included a detailed line drawing and stated the shell is known as "Tennessee Sabot". 
  
  General E.P. Alexander, late Chief of Artillery of Longstreet's Corps, states in Southern Historical Society papers that the projectile was called "Mullane" or "Tennessee Shell", and that Mr. Mullane had been denied a patent on it because it had already been patented by Mr. Read on October 28, 1856.
  

It appears applying the Read 1856 patent to the Mullane Sabot is a bit of a stretch.  Much more info in the book but this generally answers it. I'm sure Pete and others can provide more detail.

Jack Bell's 2003 Heavy artillery book uncovers some newer information which indicates we should call the sabot the Gibbon sabotted shell.  On page 398 of his book Jack provides a letter he uncovered in 2001 which ends with the statement:

• "By copper cup I mean the copper disc designed by Capt. Gibbon or what is called the Tennessee Shell"

So it seems to me if all of this is accurate and there is no missing data that the shell was called at the time the "Tennessee Sabot" by Lardner Gibbon. 

The odd part that is still not clear to me anyway is why "Tennessee" gets into the name?  Gibbon was an ordnance inspecting officer at Tredegar in Virginia. 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
Thanks for the information.  I agtree with you that the copper cup bears no resemblance to the Read sabot.  So based on Jack Bell's evidence should we be calling it a Gibbon's Sabot? What about it Pete. It appears to be more accurate than TennesseeSabot.
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

Given that a number of references at the time were calling it "Tennessee Sabot" I think they get to set the name.  Even the letter Jack found states "what is called the Tennessee Shell".  While it seems we know most shells by their inventor I don't think that is a hard rule.  We also know Selma shells by a location name.  So I'd say the Tennessee Sabot shells are called Tennessee sabot shells and were likely invented by Lardner Gibbon.

Some interesting related info, Jack Bell also noted in his book that Lardner Gibbon is also a co-inventor of the 4.62" Gibbons and Andrews Rifle.  It appears Gibbon was already a bit of a personality before the war due to his 1851 book set he co-wrote (Gibbon wrote volume 2) on exploring the Amazon river basin:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_the_Valley_of_the_Amazon

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,  perhaps I should do more research on the Tennessee Sabot and the Selma projectile.
John

[Selma Brooke Gunner]

Just to stir the pot a little Brooke received a letter from Lt. Catesby ap R. Jones detailing the test firing of the first 7 inch single band before it went onto the CSS Virginia, he described the shells used in the testing as "The Britton shell (Fingal 63 lbs) and the shell made here with composition saucer called Tennessee 100 lbs..." This is dated 5 February 1862.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Brooke,  Thank you but it still does not lead to the shell's inventor.
Several people here have quoted Alexander as saying "Mullane's request to have his shell patented was rejected due to its similarity to Read's invention."
Duh! if Mullane's patent was turned down, then damn he is the inventor and his shell should be so called even tho someone in Tennessee stole Mullane's patent information and started producing it in Tennessee. ??
Kind Regards,
John
 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Please allow me to bump this one time to ensure all have read my comment above.  Thanks.
Regards,
John

[Selma Brooke Gunner]

Question. When did Mullane apply for his patent?

  We know that as early as 1862 that the saucer shaped sabot was also called a Tennessee. I know that this is not supplying an answer but it is narrowing the time line. The answer is in the six years between '56 and '62. You have gotten me intrigued into finding this answer John.

[CarlS]

Well the patent, rightly or wrongly, is owned by Read.  Mullane was turned down because the patent office rightly or wrongly declared the design covered by Mr. Read's patent.  Thus we should be calling it a Read.   

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mullane walks into the patent office carrying a shell he has designed and has made a patent model. The model has a cast iron shell body with its sabot made of a copper disk, slightly curved with three pins sticking through the pllate or into the shell to prevent rotation and a bolt holding the disk to the shell body. Now this shell has a one of a kind savbot and he is told that it has been already patented by Read.
    Someone please post a photo of Read's design that has these features???
John

[CarlS]

John,

Do you have evidence that he walked into the patent office with a patent model?  Methinks he likely sent in the application and got rebuffed based on drawings in the application when the patent office compared them to Read's patent and someone called him on his cell phone and told him it was already covered by an existing patent.  Of course they may have never looked either because someone was paying them to reject anything they could even slightly consider covered by an existing  patent.  Politicians and government workers were crooked back then too.  I bet during the Civil War that there was a bunch of lobbying going on for patents and government contracts.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl, The only evidence I have is what the members have said with regard to Alexamder saying that Mullane's patent was turned down.  I only know of one type projectile referred to as a Mullane. All of knowthe features of his design.  So the sabot havving three anti-rotation studs with a curved copper sabot held onto the shwll base with a bolt. Mullane was its inventor, just not the patent holder. That my friends is my arguement.
   Now someone can find the inventor of the Tennessee Sabot and produce its patent.
   As early as November 1960, Frank Hackley illustrated the "Dowel Base" as it was sometimes called and referred to it as a Mullane. I will try and locate Frank and get his reference.
Kind Regards,
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To All,
   For the  good order and discipline of the Forum I will cease my posts on the Mullane projectile.  Thank you for entertaining my thoughts and as Carl said , no evidence. I will however, be happy to see a Read with All of the Mullane features.
Kind Regards,
John

[CarlS]

I have no doubt from what has been found by Pete, Tom, Jack Bell and others that is quoted above that Read didn't invent the Mullane.  What is not clear to me at least is who was first: Mullane or Gibbon?  Unless someone finds some documentation unknown before now that gives more insight then it seems we'll never know.

Also, I haven't seen any indication that we have a copy of Mullane's patent application.  His association to the Tennessee sabot shell is based on General Alexander's statement.  Is there any other tie-in of Mr. Mullane to the design of this type shell?