Penultimate Projectile

[alwion]

Not sure how that could be #2. How could it get cooler than this one!!!

[emike123]

Thank you Alan.  Because it has all three elements of appeal -- desirability, rarity and condition -- it took a lot of effort to track down and secure. 

John: Here are more pictures per your request.  The fins are cast integrally to the shell body.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Thanks Mike.  It looks pretty clean for a dug specimen doesn't it? What is the ciameter across two opposing fins?or is it the same as the shell body??
  Does anyone have a specimen with its sabot intact? or have fin fragments?
John

[emike123]

The diameters of the fins and body are essentially the same.  The diameter across the fins is half a millimeter smaller than at the body.  I know there is an optical illusion in the above base view picture, but that is the foreshortening effect and there is not much I can do about it.

There is a picture of one with a sabot in Pete's book.  I am afraid it is not going to be easy for you to find other specimens or even parts -- This is the first I have had a shot at, Jack Bell said he had not seen another in 30 years and Carl's comments above about how tough to find these are are similar -- but perhaps we'll be pleasantly surprised.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
   thank you for the added info.  It certainly is a rare one.  Almost like the Whitworth case shot.  I don't have Pete's book with me here in FL.
Regards,
John

[emike123]

Ouch -- that's a backhanded compliment I would've expected from others but not you.  I'm going to solace myself that it was inadvertent.

The Whitworth case shot is a much more common shell.  We see them for sale at many shows but few if anyone buys them.  And as previously discussed in another thread, in my humble opinion, it is generally a poseur as by my unscientific estimates 99.9% of those English as opposed to Confederate made shells (probably being charitable with my math) never set foot on American soil except perhaps at Bannermans.  I can find you half a dozen rarer, made and used here, projectiles than the Whitworth case shot at any given relic show.

No more pictures for you until after a suitable, determined by me, cooling off period!

[divedigger]

He he he! Pretty funny. Now i get it. The fins were for holding the sabot.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hrump! Well now I certainly was not comparing the two with regard to rareity as the Archer is clearly the hands dpwm wommer om rare shells.I am surprised you have forgotten the Modern Greece so soon..
    Here is my take on the useless fins.  The lead sabot will provide initial spin to stabalize the shell in flight. Because the fins apparently have no angle to them in reference to providing added spin, they infact would act like an impellor and retard the spin and probably cause the line of sight to drop.
John
P.S.  How many of these have bee dug and where?

[emike123]

I have not forgotten the Modern Greece, which is why I was careful to use the term US soil.  The ones aboard her almost made it to the US shore and a handful may have been salvaged from the wreck and used.  Most never got used here which is why if the Archer was #2 on my wishlist, the detachable nose Whitworth isn't even on my list.  Others might see it differently as is their prerogative.

All Archers are early war and this finned one is very early, typically associated with 1861 Virginia sites.  Pete has it listed as rarity 10 which means fewer than a dozen have survived.  I recall the one in his book is from Fairfax which is early war Northern Virginia.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
    Approx. 1.5 cases were recovered from the Modern Greece.  Remember the ship was salvaged by the confederates in order to retrieve the four Whitworth rifles. Surely Shot shell and case shot was removed during that earlier salvage.  More than the paltry 1.5 cases of case shot would have been provided for four rifles..... -30-
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
I just received an email from Les Jensen, Curator at West Point Museum and he says that there is not a finned Archer in it collection.
John

[redbob]

Civility has returned. Thank you gentlemen.

[emike123]

Good.  It probably would've gotten ruined in the West Point Museum storage room where water or some other liquid dripped all over the rare projectiles on the shelves back there.  Have they gotten that fixed yet?  As of a couple years ago I heard from folks it was a mess back there.  If not, anyone out there considering donating their stuff, please send it to me instead as I guarantee to take better care of it!

[CarlS]

I'd be willing to bet there are no more than 4 or 5 of the finned Archers.

[Dave the plumber]

           so what is number one dream shell, Mike ??