Field caliber Whitworths

[CarlS]

Great thing about this forum.  Tidbit of info here, tidbit there and all of a sudden we have some understanding.  Doesn't always work but sometimes it does shed light with a large group and helps our overall understanding.  Thanks.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

So ends the lesson.....

[CarlS]

The lesson never ends.  There is always something more to learn.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
   so with this documentation the collecting world will have to accept the Whitworth Case Shot as an authentic member of the ACW.
Regards,
John

[scottfromgeorgia]

I don't agree, John. Until it is listed as battle field recovered, it is not ACW, in my view. There is still not enough evidence here.

[pipedreamer65]

Nah man, I disagree, if it made it to the Confederate shore, it's ACW.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

So you don't consider the sunken blockade runner "Modern Greece" filled with ordnance and destined for the rebels a battlefield.  How about all the shells from Fort Fisher lying on the ocean floor?? It is just as much a battlefield as any on land. We don't know how many of these shells were salvaged by the C.S. after it sunk.
  What we do know is one box of 10 projectiles was recovered from its water grave and carried ashore, which is no different than digging one up on land. However, that being said, you are entitled to you opinion, and if you are correct in your assumptions, then I wasted my time gathered this documentation.
Lastly, please define battlefield!
Kind Regards,
John

[CarlS]

Very interesting discussion and whether they are American Civil War (ACW) relics and will probably be similar to politics, religion and a host of other things that will boil down to opinion.

It seems the detachable nose Whitworth shells on the Modern Greece were purchased by the Confederate government and thus owned by the CS government who was supporting one of the armies fighting the ACW.  They were found on board a CS ship that made it to US/CS waters.  They just didn't seem to make it to a cannon to be fired although Jack reports finding a nose piece but he didn't say if he found it on the ship or detecting on dry land somewhere else. 

This is all very similar to a number of the shells found dumped in the river at Milledgeville, Ga.  The bourreletted read for the rifled 12 pounder is only found in the river in Milledgeville.  Yet, Jack Bell states in his book, "Provenance: Milledgeville, Georgia.  No other recovery sites known." so it seems none were actually used to fight the war.  But I don't know anyone who does not consider this a ACW shell and very much wants one in his collection.  Perhaps it's because it was made in North America during the war.

[pipedreamer65]

Concur, coast off Fort Fisher was very much a battlefield.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
   Jack Wells found the nose piece, not me, although there was intact projectile in my collection and shown in my book.
Regards,
John

[redbob]

Maybe, opinions are based more on whether you have one in your collection than on actual evidence.  Either way, this has been one of the most enjoyable and informative threads that I have seen. 

[CarlS]

John,

I meant Jack but I guess my fingers had another mind of their own and typed John.  I've corrected that and thanks for sharing.  Where was the intact projectile in your book found?

Also, I hope you don't mind but I cropped your image down to just the Whitworth so it will be more easily seen by everyone.  Unless you have a large monitor the Whitworth shell will be off the display to the right and if you didn't know to scroll over it likely wouldn't have been seen.

[Dave the plumber]

     Since I live here in Wilmington, I'll check with the locals and see what they have dug in the way of Whitworths.  I need to call around and pass my holiday  greetings on anyway.......   
     Not to poison the thread, but one fella found a stacked pile of 6 lb'ers once.....     
     And a lot of WW's were recovered off the Modern Greece by locals, I've owned quite a few bolts through the years

[Steve Phillips]

I have one of these and when I bought it in 1989 from Bill Smith I was told it came from Gettysburg. It is not salt water contaminated. The number 56 is stamped near the nose and appears to be an original arsenal or manufacturing marking. I didn't find it myself so I can't be sure where it came from but I think it is from Gettysburg.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
   The one in my book came from the Smithsonian basement collection on loan to me. I know you typed it wrong but it gave me a chance to include the radiograph.
John