Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

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31
Artillery / Re: 18 pound Alamo cannon
« Last post by CarlS on December 13, 2023, 05:46:10 PM »
Many thanks for sharing.  I really enjoyed the information and videos.  It is a well done web page by the Alamo group.  One day I'd love to get out that way and see the site.
32
Artillery / 18 pound Alamo cannon
« Last post by misipirelichtr on December 12, 2023, 11:34:05 AM »
Obviously not Civil War, but very interesting read about an iconic cannon in Texas and American history.  Certainly what happened to the original cannon is one of history's mysteries

https://www.thealamo.org/visit/whats-at-the-alamo/18-pounder-cannon
33
General Discussion / Re: New Addition to the Iron Club
« Last post by CarlS on October 25, 2023, 11:17:35 AM »
Congratulations on the new family member!

You need to go hunt down by St Augustine.  Seems there are all kinds of relics around there being dug up lately!
34
Artillery / Re: New Frag ID
« Last post by CarlS on October 25, 2023, 11:12:11 AM »
Great information here as always.  One monkey wrench I'll throw into the mix is that the wall thickness is a result of the distance from the sand core (used to create the powder cavity) to the mold surface used to case the shell's outer surface.  When everything is done right there will be a known and consistent wall thickness as in Pete's image.  But from cutting and viewing a lot of half shells over the years I know that the sand core often shifted and that results in a side that is thinner than standard and a side that is thicker than standard.  So the best way to determine the caliber is by determining it from the outer surface.  I carry a set of arc gauges with me that a friend made to rest against a frag to determine the caliber.  They've been extremely handy.

Great to hear from you Pete!
35
Artillery / Re: New Frag ID
« Last post by Pete George on October 21, 2023, 04:34:28 PM »
Dave wrote:
> The Heavy Arty book lists examples of 11? smooth bore shells but no wall thickness of course.
> I was just curious if anyone had a known 11? frag with a similar thickness (1.95?).

Because during the past 40 years I've very frequently been asked to correctly identify artillery shell fragments, I long ago put some serious study into answering your question about cannonball shellwall thickness.

Go to the US Ordnance Manual of 1861, and consult the first chart on page 34. That page's title is "Chapter Second -- Shot and Shells -- Nomenclature, Dimensions, Weight.) The first chart on that page tells the shellwall thickness of all cannonballs except for a 9"-caliber shell. For example, it says:
8"-caliber, AVERAGE (a.k.a. "True") shellwall is approximately 1.5-inches.
10"-caliber, average thickness is approximately 2.0-inches.

Therefore, Dave, your Spanish Fort frag is from a 10-inch Common-Shell. (Note, the Case-Shot shellwall is thinner.)

For those of you who are interested in the "missing data" for a 9-inch caliber shellwall:
I've attached (below) a scan of an 1854-dated diagram from the US Bureau of Naval Ordnance. It shows a 9"-caliber shellwall's thickness is 1.6-inches. However, it seems to average about 1.7-inches thick in the frags I've personally measured from wartime production 9" roundshells.

In closing, a cautionary note:
Always remember, as we've seen in sawed-in-half shells, the powder-cavity is often erroneously cast off-center... which causes the shellwall to be noticeably thicker on one side of the shell than the opposite side. So, for example, a 9" shell can produce some 1.6", 1.7" and 1.8"-thick frags. In the other photo attached below, note that the cavity's bottom shellwall is a lot thinner than at the right and left upper sidewalls.

Regards,
Pete G. 
36
General Discussion / Re: New Addition to the Iron Club
« Last post by gflower on October 01, 2023, 05:01:42 PM »
Sorry for the delay, crime never rests. No problems with this last storm. We lucked out. Weather is changing and I am
Caught up  at work so hoping to get out next weekend on some local
sites.  No Iron but there should be buttons and bullets. Hope everyone is well and getting Iron Lucky. Gary
37
Artillery / Re: New Frag ID
« Last post by Dave on September 29, 2023, 07:01:28 AM »
Thank you for the response. I should?ve put more information in my original post. I have done that with the printed (used a computer instead of the compass) diameter.  It appears to match. The Half-Shell book only lists a case shot shell in 11? diameter and its wall thickness is quite a bit less of course (1?). The Heavy Arty book lists examples of 11? smooth bore shells but no wall thickness of course. I was just curious if anyone had a known 11? frag with a similar thickness (1.95?).
Thanks.
38
Artillery / Re: New Frag ID
« Last post by emike123 on September 28, 2023, 03:57:42 PM »
It is about impossible for us to help you with this from a photograph without any measurements, but the good news is you can figure this out yourself with the aid of a $4 compass like kids use in grade school.  Set the jaws to a 5.5" (err to less) from the metal point to the pencil tip.   Draw an arc on a heavy duty piece of poster board or card stock and cut along this line.  Then put this curve against the outside surface of the frag.  If it fits like a glove, it's a frag to an 11" spherical shell.

I know you can do it!  Good luck.
39
Artillery / New Frag ID
« Last post by Dave on September 21, 2023, 10:04:20 AM »
Here we go again.  Sorry for all the posts asking questions but I have far less iron experience than most of you guys.  I appreciate any and all opinions and responses.  Here we have a very heavy and thick frag found at Spanish Fort, AL.  It is 1.95" thick and seems to correspond closely to the diameter of a US 11" shell (10.87") the best that I can tell which would be from an 11" Dahlgren.  Opinions?  Thoughts?
40
General Discussion / Re: New Addition to the Iron Club
« Last post by CarlS on September 09, 2023, 11:26:58 PM »
Very nice!  Congratulations!
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