Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: John D. Bartleson Jr. on August 01, 2012, 05:58:27 PM
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To All Interested:
Since two of our last posts were discussed on the Bormann Fuse, I woujld like to illustrate one of three known C.S. Time Fuse adapters that were supposed to have replaced use of the Borman time fuse by the C.S. in 1862.
The substitute fuse was designed to screw into the support plug hole with a gasket under the head
Regards,
John
P.S. Why aren't more found?
Double click the image for larger view.
I have assigned a nmbner to each of the three know fuses for reference, they have no meaning except for my filing until an agreed name is arrived at.
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I suppose the reason few are recovered is because CS discontinued making cannon balls with fuse holes to accept the Bormann fuse after they were told to stop using their own Bormann fuses. The regular, common CS copper ball fuse adapter operates on the same principle and yet is more economical in its use of copper
Another nice drawing, John....that fuse adapter looks very familiar ;-)
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Mike,
Thank you for the kind words. I am working on a thrird model. The major differences in these 3 fuses is the length of the body threads. The fuse heads a massive when compared to other fuse adapters. A rare find!
I wish I could remember where I read about a 12 pdr exploding as a Bormann fuse was being removed.
This surely was an arsenal event under controled conditions than those found in the field.
My thanks also to Jack Melton for images.
Best Regards,
John
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Pete,
Since you can probably help me out with some suggestions. Would you kindly look at the below shell and tell me if I have it accurately depicted.
The fuse adapter was drawn from a real fuse and is shown above, however, I don't have a sectioned C.S. shell to ensure the accurate placement of the substitute fuse in the fuse hole. Thanks
Regards,
John
P.s. Pete we just sent it back to the arsenal for rework. They couldn't fix the color.
Oh and I used your image on page 413 of your revised edition to place the gasket on the unedited drawing. :)
John
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Here is one with an iron sideplug in it. Sibeloader plug is back where the goop is under the lower right side of the fuse adapter. This being a case shot (owing to the sideplug) the walls are thinner than your depiction which is more like the shell wall thickness of a common shell.
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Mike,
I meant it to be a shell and not a case shot.
Darn if you don't have everything. How abot a high res of it.
Below is a perspective view of the No. 2 fse abobe. Main difference is a shorter thread length.
Regards,
John
Hey guys I post this stuff to try and generate a long thread.
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John D. Bartleson Jr. wrote:
> Pete, since you can probably help me out with some suggestions.
> Would you kindly look at the below shell and tell me if I have it accurately depicted.
I'm still on pain-meds for the two stones which are still stuck in my right kidney. But I'll do the best I can to answer your request. Please note, the following comments are intended as FRIENDLY suggestions, not as nit-picking.
1- The actual fuze head's top is flat, but your diagram shows a dome-shaped head.
2- Your diagram shows the fuze's color as yellow brass. The actual fuze is made of copper, so it should not be a yellow color in the diagram.
3- In your diagram, you show the fuze head's color as yellow brass, and the fuze's threaded section as a brown-ish color. All parts of this fuze should be the same color (copper-colored).
4- In actuality, the threading on the "main" part of a Bormann fuzehole AND its underplug hole are the same... specifically, 12 threads-per-inch. But your diagram has very "fine" threading on the fuze, looking like 24 threads-per-inch. The fuze's threading should be the same as the iron threads (12-per-inch).
5- Two of the three versions of this fuze have a non-threaded "tail" section below the threaded section. Your diagram shows the tail-less (Selma-made) version ...which is by FAR the rarest of the three versions. For visual clarity, I'd suggest putting a "smooth-tailed" version in the diagram ...but of course, you can show whichever version you wish in your diagram.
6- In your diagram, the leather gasket is the same width as the threaded section of the fuzehole. That depiction leaves the entire gasket-rebate "empty." The Confederate "extra-wide" leather gasket would entirely fill (or very nearly fill) the gasket-rebate.
Regards,
Pete
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Pete,
, I will take them in good taste.:)
Best Regards,
John
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Below were my models for the color renderings:
John
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To All for thought;
I have noticed on several Of Pawl's sectioned 12 pdrs with Borrmann fuses, that the support plug was not screwed in flush with the bottom of the fuse hole, but stuck up several threads proud. This certainly would not permit the fuse to seat flat on its gasket and might even stove in the bottom of fuse on setback. Both these conditions could , perhaps, cause a premature detonation in the bore or shortly after leaving it.
I don't have a mint condition shell and support plug to check if it could even be screwed in to far as to lose support for the fuse. Another possible cause.
Additionally, if gunners were instructed to bottom the fuse, the support plug could conceiveably push in the soft fuse bottom. Comments?
Regards,
Johns
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I'd say that is a very good insight about one of the likely causes of prematue detonation by a Bormann fuze. Here's a "halfsection" photo showing a Bormann fuze's support-plug (underplug) not being screwed down "flush" with the support-shelf at the bottom of the main fuzehole.
Regards,
Pete
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Thanks Pete,
That is exactly what I am seeing in Mr. Pawl's sectioned shells.
Regards,
John
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Pete,
I am confused. On page 413 of your revised book you state that the Bormann fuse was replaced by a 'brass' fuse plug and there is no rebate in the shell fuse hole. ??
Regards,
John
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Your confusion about that is understandable. Here are the answers:
In the 1993 Edition of the book, I updated every page of the Field Artillery projectiles section. Due to time-pressure to meet the publication date, I was unable to update most of the Fuzes section. So, what is on page 413 was written by Tom Dickey in 1979. (The drawing was done by his son Tom Jr. in that same year. At that time, I had not yet been able to convince Tom that there was a visible difference between US-made and CS-made Bormann fuzes, and also the fuzeholes. Tom had not checked the metal-content of the Bormann-Replacement fuzeplugs. All the ones I've checked have turned out to be made of copper. I suppose a brass version may exist, but I think it's not very likely, for a logical reason. By Summer 1863 brass had become too scarce in the Confederacy for making one-time-use items like "simple-type" artillery fuzeplugs ..unless there was a very important reason to use brass for the fuzeplug.
The only version of Bormann-Replacement fuzeplug that I haven't personally checked the metal-content of is the super-rare Selma screwdriver-slotted version. Is anybody here who owns one of those willing to make a little scrape on it to see whether the metal is brass instead of the usual copper like the non-Selma versions I've checked?
Regards,
Pete
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Interesting Pete, When you scrape a copper fuse plug is it like a new penny beneath?
I think brass is a mx of copper with about 5% plus of zinc. I would have thought they would use brass which is harder than copper. Either stands up over the years. :-\
Best Regards,
John
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I checked and the Selma one shown above in the black and white picture is copper not brass. I have all three versions shown and each is copper.
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Mike,
When you scraped the fuses did they look like a new penny? or What?
John
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Copper is generally a little pinker than brass and slightly softer
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John D. Bartleson Jr. wrote:
> Interesting Pete, When you scrape a copper fuse plug is it like a new penny beneath?
Yes ...or very close. I'll talk about the various metal-colors further down in this post.
> I think brass is a mix of copper with about 5% plus of zinc.
No. The copper-content ratio you indicated in your statement (95% copper, 5% zinc) is what was in a US penny until 1982. I'm sure you wouldn't say those pennies were made of brass. ;-)
Nearly four decades ago, when trying to riddle out the differences I saw between US-made and CS-made Bormann fuzes, I got to wondering about why some types of fuzes corrode like crazy and others corrode much less, if at all. (Also, why do some metal sabots "stretch" nicely when under stress, while others rip, and others shatter like a china dinnerplate?) I found the answer was in the "content" of the metal. In my decades of studying to figure out the actual metal content of civil war projectile sabots and fuzes, I've had to do a fair amount of basic-level Metallurgical study.
For readers who don't already know the Metallurgical facts, here is a simplified explanation of brass, and its various colors.
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Strangely, when you combine (let's say) 2 ounces of that "pink" metal with 1 ounce of that silvery metal together in the melting-pot, the result is a very different color than either of those metals. The 65/35 copper-&-zinc alloy is "yellowish" ...which with the addition of greater and greater amounts of copper, becomes golden, then orange, and then a reddish hue I would describe as a "light" pink.
The following percentages are approximations, not super-precise. (I've found that various Metallurgical charts disagree with each other about the percentages.)
50-60% copper, remainder zinc, makes "white" brass
60-75% copper, remainder zinc, makes "yellow" brass
75-80% copper, remainder zinc, makes "golden" brass
80-85% copper, remainder zinc, makes "orange" brass,
85-90% copper, remainder zinc, makes "red" brass
Note:
"Red brass," being extremely high in copper content, is very nearly indistinguishable to the eye from copper, so please guys, let's not argue about whether a fuze is made of copper or what a Metallurgist would call "red brass."
> I would have thought they would use brass which is harder than copper.
Yes, brass is harder than copper, because the zinc in the brass is a harder metal than copper. The hardness becomes important if the fuze's metal needs to be hard because it will put to "violent" stress. For example, the fine-gauge threading on a Percussion fuze's anvil-cap needs to be strong enough to not fail when the fuze's slider violently strikes the anvil-cap. Also, a Watercap fuze's fine-threaded small central insert needs to be able to withstand firing-blast without getting blown down into the fuze's body. So, the Confederates needed to use brass for their Percussion and Watercap fuzes. But CS simple timefuze adapter-plugs (which do not have "fine" threading) did not need to be made of brass. So, if you've got plenty of copper but zinc (required for making brass) has become scarce in your nation, your fuzes and sabots will be copper unless the use of brass is a serious necessity.
Closing note:
I've observed that a (very) few CS timefuze adapter-plugs are made of brass. I think the explanation is that usually (but not quite always) there was something "special" about the brass CS ones. For example, their threading was different than the usual CS standard of 12 threads-per-inch, or the body was a non-typical diameter for CS shells, or it was a fuzeplug for a non-typical Confederate-made projectile like a cylindrical Case-Shot. Perhaps brass was used as a way to visually "alert" the artillerymen that the fuzeplug was not the typical version. For example, I dug a "groundburst" British-made Long-model Whitworth shell near Richmond VA. When I examined the CS-made timefuze adapter-plug I dug in the hole with the frags, the fuzeplug was made of brass, and was 1.1-inch wide, to correctly fit that British-made shell's fuzehole. Also, the very rare CS extra-long-range rifled Case-Shot fuzeplugs that I've checked are made of brass.
Regards,
Pete
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Whew! Thanks Pete. Now if I could just have a selection or mix to make copper for my fuses we both would be happy. If you go back to the bottom of page 1 of this post you will see the fuse images I used to make my drawing from. Can you tell what color they are? I can't.
Not all threads, in art work, will have the same color as the rest of the fuse. Each thread shades a little of the one under it and so on. In my first ones they have the same color.
Perhaps one day I can afford to by Version 13 and maybe it will have the proper color pallet.
Thanks again for all your research in metals. ::)
Best Regards,
John
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can anyone make a copper repor. of the first type and sell one to me. Joe gatz : cwo4gatz@optonline.net or call me 631 828 9355
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Joe: I don't have one of the first style with the unthreaded tail to get the measurements from but a machine shop could certainly make one. I am not sure what the cost might be or how hard to get a block of copper. Brass is certainly readily available if that would suffice. If I had to guess on price I'd say around $90 to $140. I'll check with one of our machinists after the holiday.
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joe,
I was going to follow up with this and realized I wasn't sure which one you wanted. Did you want the style in the first image posted by John Bartleson or the style in Mike's first image?