Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: Garret on August 13, 2020, 04:35:52 PM
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Everyone loves Mac Mason painted relics and I understand why they are coveted, but I personally feel this is too much to pay for a sideloader. Of course, too much is relative to whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Thoughts?
http://floridaconfederate.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?1347
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I believe I saw this for sale for $3250 or something ridiculous like that at the Chattanooga show. I had to ask him twice, to be sure I heard him correctly. I have a few Mac pieces, and if anyone is interested, I'll let them go for a lot less !!
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I know Dicky Ferry personally over 40 years. He is a fair and knowledgeable dealer and collector. The Magic words in the sideloaders description are " on consignmen". Make him and offer and he will carry it back. If the owner needs or wants the money, my guess he will be flexible. That said its clearly a Mason Shell. Just my thoughts. Gary
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Gary, not impugning the dealer, it’s his business, he can charge or try to get the most for his consignor. I get that. I also know this is fishing--lots of dealers do this. You put the bait out and maybe a big fish with deep pockets will pull the trigger. I’m just curious about the opinion of others as to the value of a Mac Mason piece. If it’s worth paying 2-3000 for his artistry? My opinion is no--without the Mac Mason connection it is a nice, $400-500 shell. But others may have other opinions.
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I will ad my thoughts to this. Dicky and I are more than friends, He is like a father to me and his lovely wife is a second mother Over at his house regularly. Was there today and I will say this is. He is more than fair with his prices on HIS stuff. THIS is a consignment item and he agrees it is too much. That being said If someone doesn't like a price on something simply dont buy it. No need to spreading negative feedback about an item someone has. I would love to have the item myself but............
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Garrett,
I didn't think you were taking a shot at Dicky. Like I said all who know him know he is a fair guy. For me I would love to own a Mac Mason shell but they keep sliding past my wallet. That said people pay all kinds of crazy money for guitars signed by a Rock Star and in the digging and collecting world he is a Rock Star, along with those mentioned on the Great Ones section of this site. To me that is way to much, but to the owner or some Atlanta Doctor with deep pockets it might just be the right amount of bait to be able to tell the story about Mac and his contributions to the field of relic hunting an collecting. The key is to find one someone has not hovered up in the parking lot before it hits the door. I would love to ask Mike what he thinks a fair price for that ball is i.e. What would he pay for it if he wanted it or how fast would the cash come out if he saw it on a table! These are after all two diffrent scenarios. I know he owns a few of Mac's shells. Gary
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That’s exactly what I meant. This shell could have been on The Horse Soldier, relicman.com or bullet and shell, the question is how much is too much for a Mac Mason? I’ve had discussions with others who say they wouldn’t pay the high markups on said shells. It’s like Gettysburg shells. Just because it’s recovered from Gettysburg it has a huge markup compared to same shell in nicer condition from, say, Vicksburg. I just used the link to the page as an example. It’s a generic question that has nothing to do with the dealer. How much is too much for a Mac Mason? If people don’t like this topic I suppose I could delete it. It’s not like there’s been a lot going on lately and it sounded like a cool topic. Again, to reiterate, yes, I’d like to add a Mac Mason to my collection, but at a reasonable price. Anyone else????
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Garret. Dicky is a close friend and if I took offense when I shouldn't have then I sincerely apologize. I love that shell and when I was holding it prior to him listing it I may have drooled a little on it. But had to set it down. To me an unmarked side loader in that condition is $400.00 to 450.00. $1000.00 it being a Mason shell.
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Garret, I understand what you're asking and appreciate the Q&A on our forum. I have been busy lately answering noob questions over on Facebook where many of you all are spending too much time!
Several years ago, Jack Melton told me that nice Mac Mason lettering increased the value of shells 2-3x. At the time I thought that was low on the high end, but turns out he was pretty right. Back then there were 4 main people running up Mac stuff, but now there aren't as many.
Of course, the math is different for an inexpensive item such as a bullet where a $5 bullet is worth $35+ if the lettering is terrific.
Gary, it happens that I have 17 Mac marked artillery projectiles. Slemmer asked me yesterday when he was negotiating to possibly buy something from the Plumber based on his trolling comment above. I have never paid anywhere near what Dickey's consignor is seeking. I paid the most for the 4" Read shown on page 111 of McKee and Mason, but that's because its a rare shell. I probably paid 1x value for it, but it was still well over $1k. I also paid over $1k for a Ketchum grenade with fins that Mac had marked, but that's what they go for even without his writing.
Besides that, I haven't paid outside the range that Jack told me years ago and I have been fortunate to come in under that multiplier more times than not.
So, I think G-man is right on the base (eg unmarked) value of this shell. Multiply it by 2 or 3 and you derive a value of $900-1100. It is a nice one. Dicky if you are watching, tell your consignor I'd pay that!
PS: I have had good dealings with Dicky and agree he is a stand up guy. My only beef with him is he doesn't have enough artillery to sell! But when he does it is usually nice. I drooled all over my keyboard about his relic pyramid he recently had for sale.
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Garret. Dicky is a close friend and if I took offense when I shouldn't have then I sincerely apologize. I love that shell and when I was holding it prior to him listing it I may have drooled a little on it. But had to set it down. To me an unmarked side loader in that condition is $400.00 to 450.00. $1000.00 it being a Mason shell.
Speedy, that's all I wanted to discuss, the value of a Mac Mason. It had nothing to do with Dicky, he always has excellent relics on his website that are priced market value. I agree, it's a beautiful shell that would be a centerpiece to many a collection, except for Mike and his 17 MM shells where it would be on the outskirts! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My two cents worth in a ramble: Any collectable is worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it. For things that there are near identical ones to be had we can look at market history for an idea. But condition, that particular items background, market competition, etc. will influence even that up or down. With artillery we have lots of 12-lber Bormanns so we know about what they are worth. But even they are affected by condition, provenance (if any), fuse type, prior ownership, etc. so there is some variety even there where there are literally thousands out there. So to get more back to the topic at hand, is that Mac ball worth the $3250? Only if someone comes forward and says "I will take it!". As long as it goes unsold while people are looking at it that would like it at a different price then walk on, you have to say it is overpriced. For some people $3250 is not the same as others and they are more willing to pay that for something they want. We see it all the time. Me, I would take my $3250 and go find two or three or four other shells I can get that still fill a hole in my collection. That writing is just not worth that kind of premium to me. But to those who collect it or simply like well done marking or had a personal realationship with Mac, I"m sure the value of the text is much higher. I have one of his shells (the 4.5" Dyer) and like it very much. I paid about 2.5 times what a plain one went for at the time but I really like the Dyers and thought it would be neat to have one. I'm also pretty sure I can get at least most of my money back should I decide to sell. Thanks for allowing the rambling.
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$2600.00 not $3250.00 LOL
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Some Mac cheese. An AE Brooks and a Woodward snuck in and photo bombed his parade.
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I'm probably going to be most hated here, but I'm not a big fan of the writing or artwork on artillery projectiles. I can see why Mason would be desirable in some respects since he is a near mythical figure in our hobby, but it wouldn't add much of a premium for me on a shell or shot. I've also seen quite a few that didn't stand the test of time with the writing fading away or the preservation method on the item failing and it needing a refinish which would destroy the art.
That being said, those are real nice Mike.... thank you for showing them.
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Funny you should mention that Pipe, because the only Mac Mason shell I own is a shell that was degrading and needed to be refinished. I bought it off of Harry Ridgeway and he told me there was no way to save the writing. So it's gone. Does anyone have McKee and Mason and could take a picture of page 129 on the lower right of the page? I don't own the book and would like to see what this shell looked like before Harry refinished it. It's this braille Bormann case shot recovered by Mac in a Confederate trench at Spotsylvania Court House in 1975. I paid what I believe to be a fair price for a ball without the MM writing on it. But I sure would have liked it better with the writing. If someone on the forum could take a picture of it from the book I would greatly appreciate it.
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Apologies for the delay, Garret, but I have been away for 2.5 weeks. I hust got back yesterday and looked at bthe photo in McKee and Mason. All it has is a close up of the Braille fuse, the entire shell is not shown.
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I’m not sure this is the photo you’re looking for, but here it is.
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Thanks gentlemen. Thanks vcorps for the pic. Looks like the fuse but I guess I'll never know what the shell looked like before Harry worked on it.