Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: speedenforcer on December 12, 2017, 06:05:42 PM
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I hope I am not infringing on any copyrights or violating and user agreements. Nor am I attempting cause suspicion an any relic dealer. I see On Nicks web site he has an 8 pound solid shot. said it came from an unknown cannon and only found at Shiloh. below is the written description. I highly respect Nick and have purchased from him in the past and will do so again. I am just curious about this solid shot, not a planned purchaser of it.
ART 1. Dug C.S. 8 lb. Solid Shot found near Shiloh, TN.
Crude ball with pitting on one side. This rare size (slightly larger than a 6 pound shot) is only found at Shiloh to my knowledge and comes from an unknown smoothbore. Dug by Ray Treece several years ago on private property near Shiloh TN.
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A friend of mine bought a ball like this from Nick about 3 years ago. Did not get any definite opinion on what gun fired it but a suggestion was made that it could be part of a James hot shot. This one was supposedly found in a trash pit in the Shiloh area. It would be good to know the exact diameter.
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It's important to report a few relevant historical facts on the subject of this so-called "8-pounder ball."
In the following report, I use the term "gun" because it was the civil war artilleryman's term for a long-barreled Smoothbore cannon... for example, the Napoleon 12-pounder Gun. Terms for the shorter-barreled Smoothbore cannons were the Howitzer and the Mortar.
1- The 8-Pounder Gun was a French smoothbore cannon, from the Colonial Era. The British and Americans had no equivalent for it.
2- As some of you already know, the "Pounder" designation for a cannon is based on the weight of a Solid-Shot projectile for that cannon. However, in the case of the 8-pounder gun, its Solid-Shot did NOT weigh eight British/American "Avoirdupois" pounds... it weighed eight French pounds. (I can't recall the French pound's exact name... I think it was the "livre.") The French pound-weight was slightly heavier (1.097 pound) than our US/Brit Avoirdupois pound.
See the "DeValliere System," here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florent-Jean_de_Valli%C3%A8re
So, France's 8-pounder Solid-Shot weighed about 8 pounds 13 ounces, just slightly less than a British/American 9-pounder Solid-Shot. An 8-pounder cannonball was about 4.05-inches in diameter, and the US/Brit 9-pounder ball was 4.10-inches. The British army was delighted to discover that captured French 8-pounder cannonballs fit very nicely into Brit 9-pounder guns.
An additional heads-up, for RevWar cannonball collectors:
The American/British 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.62-inches.
The French 12-pounder gun's bore diameter was 4.76-inches (121mm).
3- In four decades of civil war artillery study, I've never seen a report of an 8-pounder gun being used in the American civil war. But, if one was used at Shiloh, its projectiles could be identified by being just .05-inch (1/20th-inch) smaller in diameter than Brit/US 9-pounder cannonballs (4.10-inches, according to the US 1861 Ordnance Manual's Shot Tables at:
www.civilwarartillery.com/shottables.htm.
And as I indicated above, the 8-pounder gun's Solid-Shot weighed about 8.8-to-8.9 American pounds.
4- According to the Shot Tables, there is no Grapeshot ball or Canister ball which is anywhere close to 8 or 9 pounds / 3.65-to-4.0-inches. Any Solid iron ball in that weight/size range is not an artillery ball... but instead, most likely is a rock-crusher/ore-crusher ball.
Speedenforcer, I second Relicrunner's suggestion... those Shiloh balls' precisely-measured diameter and very-exact weight (pounds & ounces) will tell us what they are, or aren't.
After-posting edit:
I modified the previous version of the text above to include the precise diameter of an actual 8-pounder cannonball, which necessitated some modification of the text.
Regards,
Pete
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That's what I was thinking. I knew if I posted you would come to the rescue and educate us. As always. Thank you sir.
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As one of my Confederate ancestors would say, "I am pleased to be of service to this forum." I must add, my service here is a pittance in comparison to the service rendered by you L.E.Os. and the other Uniformed Services. Thank you very much for it.
Best regards,
Pete
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:) Thank you Pete, That means more than you know. Its people like you that makes it worth while, and an honor to do so.