Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: alwion on December 03, 2017, 06:44:59 PM
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Got a 6lb Borman sideloader at Franklin, appears to have a US fuse. Mentioned it to a friend, and he wondered with such a large opening in the top for the borman fuse, why was it side loaded instead of top loaded? or with a US fuse, was it drilled and then loaded( would seem dangerous). This may be something simple I just missed, but didn't see a reason in my books or my search of the forum.
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The reason for manufacturing a Sideloader case-shot:
When the Confederacy's supply of lead got so short that iron case-shot balls had to be substitued for lead ones, the usual method of creating a powder cavity inside the mass of case-shot balls wouldn't work. In lead ball case-shot shells, you simply drill down through the fuzehole with a large auger-bit, boring out a "well" for the bursting-charge powder down through the mass of balls. But you cannot drill through a mass of iron balls. The bit won't bite into the small iron spheres, and just breaks the iron balls loose from the matrix, or the bit jams.
So, some bright fellow in the Confederate Ordnance Department came up with the idea of casting case-shot shells with two holes... the usual fuzehole, plus a side-loading hole. Both of those holes are threaded. You put the end of a thick iron bar down through the fuzehole to the bottom of the empty shell. Turn the shell on its side, with the sideloading hole uppermost. Drop the case-shot balls into the shell until it is full. Pour a molten matrix (asphalt, sulphur, or (in the case of some Confederate manufacturers) pine-resin (pinesap). Let the matrix cool and harden. Screw a closure-plug into the sideloading hole. Pull the iron bar out of the fuzehole, and there's your powder-cavity.
I should mention, for lead sideplugs, you'd simply twist the end of a cylindrical lead rod into the threaded sideloader hole, and the soft lead rod would "self-thread" itself into the hole. Cut the lead rod off flush with the shell's surface, tap it flat, and you're done.
For many decades, it was believed that no Bormann-fuzed Sideloader Case-Shot were made. But then around the late-1990s (if I recall correctly), either our own Colonel John Biemeck or one of his close buddies in the Army of Northern Viginia Explosive Ordnance Disposal Team dug an intact Bormann-fuzed 12-pounder Sideloader and part of another one, somewhere near the Wilderness, if I recall correctly. I suspect it was most likely from the 1863 Chancellorsville battle overlap of that area, rather than a summer-1864 firing.
As I said, that was a 12-pounder. I've never seen nor heard of a 6-pounder BORMANN-FUZED Sideloader Case-Shot. Some "converted" 6-pdr. Bormanns exist, of course, having the copper CS Bormann-Replacement timefuze plug in them, not their original CS solder-alloy (not zinc) Bormann fuze.
Alwion, if at all possible, please provide us several well-focused closeup photos of the fuze in the 6-pdr. Bormann Sideloader you are reporting. I know of some subtle ID-clues to look for which tell whether a Bormann fuze is US-made or CS-made, even when the time-index markings are obliterated. Also if possible, please provide us with that shell's super-precisely measured weight. (Please use a digital Postal Shipping scale... that is very important.)
Regards,
Pete
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This may just turn out to be an interesting thread. Back to the comment about pine resin matrix. Never heard of that one but then again I'm still learning. How rare are those and are there any sectioned ones where you can see it. If you have one Pete, and if anyone does I'm sure you do, could you post a picture of it.
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Pete, I really enjoy reading your explanations of all things artillery. 8)
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Pete, I really enjoy reading your explanations of all things artillery. 8)
Ditto !
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Fuse is very hard, when we were discussing this at Franklin, Carl thought it was a US fuse, and it does not seem to be a soft solder fuse. It was disarmed through the fuse ( see photo) and the hole filled. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a digital postal scale and don't think it would be a great idea to take it into the post office, but on Grandmother manual postal scale( she was a postmaster and I got her scale, its 4 lbs 15 oz. these is some metal loss due to pitting. I believe it came out of the new york collection he just bought. you can see part of the sideloader threads maybe in the picture, the dissimilar metal looks to have popped after the shell was originally coated
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Speedenforcer asked:
> "Back to the comment about pine resin matrix. Never heard of that one but then again I'm still learning. How rare are those and are there any sectioned ones where you can see it. If you have one Pete, and if anyone does I'm sure you do, could you post a picture of it."
Rarity: CS case-shot shells with pine-resin (pinesap) matrix to cement the balls in place are not rare. Many, perhaps most, 12-pounder Sideloader case-shots dug in Virginia have the pine-resin matrix. Although most CS Bormann-fuzed Case-Shot have asphalt matrix, I've seen a few that had pine-resin. I'll attach a photo of a sawed-in-half 12-pounder Sideloader at the end of this post. The Confederates did not have an endless supply of asphalt, nor sulphur, but they did have plenty of good ol' Southern pinesap.
Some of you have seen a pinetree whose bark got gashed and leaked a quantity of pinesap, which is honey-coloreed when fresh but tends to dry out to a very pale yellow color... a lot lighter shade than sulphur. The pine-resin matrix inside the sawed case-shot shells tends to look like you mixed some light grey paint into pale yellow paint. When you see it and a true yellow suphur matrix case-shot side by side, you cannot mistake which one is which. Compare the yellow sulphur matrix in the sawed US Bormann Case-Shot (24-pdr.) and the CS 12-pounder pine-resin Sideloader in the photos below.
I should mention... you want the matrix material you use to be a flammable substance. Both asphalt and sulphur burn easily... and so does pinesap.
Regards,
Pete
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Gandycreek wrote:
>Quote from: pipedreamer65 on Today at 08:56:47 AM
>> Pete, I really enjoy reading your explanations of all things artillery. 8)
> Ditto !
Thanks, guys. Although my explanations are sometimes lengthy, I try to make them something that doesn't require an Engineering degree to understand and visualize. (I tell it like I'd like it told to me.) Glad to hear that it's working, and entertaining.
Best regards,
Pete
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Alwion, I am sorry to have to say, in my opinion that Bormann-fuzed 6-pounder ball is not a Sideloader. Here are the points in my reasoning.
(1) No 6-pounder Bormann-fuzed Sideloader Case-Shots have ever been reported.
(2) Its fuze is definitely a yankee-made Bormann.
(3) The spot which kinda-sorta resembles a sideplug is larger than a case-shot's sideplug. To my eye, it looks like a form of corrosion we civil war shell collectors call a "saucer-pit."
(4) The precise weight you report, 4 pounds 15 ounces, means beyond any doubt that this shell is filled with lead case-shot balls, not iron ones. As I indicated in my first reply in this discussion-thread, if you've got lead balls, there is no need to go to the extra labor to make a Sideloader shell. You simply use an ordinary case-shot shell body and auger out a powder-cavity by drilling down through the lead balls and matrix.
This is why I requested that the shell's very-precise weight be ascertained and provided:
Weight of the 6-pdr. Sideloader (iron balls) Case-Shot shown on page 32 Dickey-&-George 1993 is 4 pounds 9 ounces.
Weight of the 6-pdr. US Bormann-fuzed Case-Shot (lead balls) shown on page 29 D&G 1993 is 5.0 pounds. Your shell weighs one ounce less than that. Long ago I encountered a faked Sideloader 3" Read which felt too lightweight in my hand. Precise weighing proved it had no case-shot balls (either iron or lead) in it. But let me say clearly, I am NOT saying your 6-pounder Case-shot is a fake Sideloader. I believe its miss-identification is an honest mistake.
Regards,
Pete
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Pete, I am renaming you The Oracle.
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I was finally able to take better pictures of just the plug, if its not a sideloader, then it sure looks like a loader hole with threads and can see why we thought it was, you can see the ring almost all the way around, and what looks like threads on one side
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w/o glare
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Speedenforcer asked:
> "Back to the comment about pine resin matrix. Never heard of that one but then again I'm still learning. How rare are those and are there any sectioned ones where you can see it. If you have one Pete, and if anyone does I'm sure you do, could you post a picture of it."
Rarity: CS case-shot shells with pine-resin (pinesap) matrix to cement the balls in place are not rare. Many, perhaps most, 12-pounder Sideloader case-shots dug in Virginia have the pine-resin matrix. Although most CS Bormann-fuzed Case-Shot have asphalt matrix, I've seen a few that had pine-resin. I'll attach a photo of a sawed-in-half 12-pounder Sideloader at the end of this post. The Confederates did not have an endless supply of asphalt, nor sulphur, but they did have plenty of good ol' Southern pinesap.
Some of you have seen a pinetree whose bark got gashed and leaked a quantity of pinesap, which is honey-coloreed when fresh but tends to dry out to a very pale yellow color... a lot lighter shade than sulphur. The pine-resin matrix inside the sawed case-shot shells tends to look like you mixed some light grey paint into pale yellow paint. When you see it and a true yellow suphur matrix case-shot side by side, you cannot mistake which one is which. Compare the yellow sulphur matrix in the sawed US Bormann Case-Shot (24-pdr.) and the CS 12-pounder pine-resin Sideloader in the photos below.
I should mention... you want the matrix material you use to be a flammable substance. Both asphalt and sulphur burn easily... and so does pinesap.
Regards,
Pete
Wow Pete!! As always, thanks for the wonderful information!
Is it safe to assume that only CS case-shot (whether sideloader or otherwise) contained the pine resin, or did some Yankee-made Case-shot contain it too? I’m always interested in learning the different ways in which to distinguish CS-made Bormanns from US- made ones. Would the pine resin presence in Bormann case-shot be one of those ways?
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Wow, that is a really round hole to be a defect.
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not to mix threads, but Mike once offered me a cut ball with pine matrix, and it was still a little stickey still and was tar sap of a dark semi translucent color like old varnish, much darker than what pete posted, almost black. I inderstood it was a CS only thing at that time. and yes the hole is vcery regular on the ball and 13/16th all the way around, even where it is pitted farther out you can see a seam
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Regarding the Bormann side loader I do know of a no doubt very nice condition one with a Bormann replacement fuse in it rather than an actual Bormann so no reason there couldn't be one with a Bormann fuse. I'm still checking to find an example. Side loaders in the 6-lber size are uncommon no matter what type of fuse they have in them.
Regarding the pine sap matrix I think that it can be yellowish and is sometime thought to be a dulled sulfur matrix.
Interesting discussion.
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Checking around I've found Bormann replacement fused shells but not another example of one with the Bormann fuse in it. Does that mean when these were made they weren't using the Bormann fuse? That would seem to make sense. But how did this one came to have the Bormann fuse I guess we may never know.
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Well, did the switch from lead case-shot balls to iron case-shot balls (as mentioned in Pete’s previous post) also coincide with the South’s cease and desist order regarding the Bormann fuse? In other words, was the switch to iron balls codified in some order from the Confederate government like the one affecting the switch to the replacement fuses? Or was the switch to iron a gradual one based largely on availability? Maybe the two are intricately related somehow...
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The CS Bormann was discontinued in about 1862 and the side loaders showed up about a year later so there would appear to be no overlap. But that doesn't preclude them finding an unused one on a shelf and using it or a US caisson being captured and the fuses being sent back to the arsenal/armory where they get used. I can see that as the kind of situation where we find just a few of some oddity.
See this nice discussion we had on the Bormann fuse around March-June, 2016:
http://bulletandshell.com/forum/index.php?topic=1897.msg14679#msg14679
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I’m glad you like that discussion. I’ve periodically updated it over the last several months with forum members’ knowledge of Bormann related topics. In fact, I’ve added Pete’s discussion about sideloaders from this thread to that discussion you linked. I’m hoping Pete will return to this particular thread. I would like to add pine-resin to the Bormann Compilation under “Ways to Distinguish CS-Bormanns from US- Bormanns” to it but not sure that’s a sure-fire means for distinguishing them yet. I would also like to add more information about iron case-shot to it too— thus the reasons I’m always asking crazy questions about the Bormann fuses related issues here.
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Well, did the switch from lead case-shot balls to iron case-shot balls (as mentioned in Pete’s previous post) also coincide with the South’s cease and desist order regarding the Bormann fuse? In other words, was the switch to iron balls codified in some order from the Confederate government like the one affecting the switch to the replacement fuses? Or was the switch to iron a gradual one based largely on availability? Maybe the two are intricately related somehow...
IIRC the change to Iron case shot happened in mid-summer 1862 didnt it? Cant remember where I read it (and I defer to the experts) but wasnt it after the 7 days battles due to a lead shortage?
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Carl, I'm not picking on you by quoting you several times in the following. :) It's just that your posts have the shortest version of various questions that have been posted lately, which makes the quoting simpler to do (see the > below).
CarlS wrote:
> Regarding the pine sap matrix I think that it can be yellowish and is sometime thought to be a dulled sulfur matrix.
The pine-sap matrix can be pale yellow, pale greyish-yellow, or pale grey, or dark-ish grey... because the manufacturers were not concerned with keeping the collected pine-sap "clean and pure" in the sap-gathering process and matrix production process. Also, I suspect the manufacturers weren't concerned about washing the melting-pots before each use and re-use. ;-)
Alwion wrote:
> Not to mix threads, but Mike once offered me a cut ball with pine matrix, and it was still a little stickey still and was tar sap of a dark semi translucent color like old varnish, much darker than what pete posted, almost black.
Heating the collected dried/gooey pine-sap hot enough to melt it for pouring into the shells can cause the original color to change. If heated too hot over an open fire, it can start blackening.
To determine whether the matrix is sulfur or pine-sap, I suggest doing the "scratch-&-sniff" test. Or a similar equivalent. If necessary, heat (or burn) a tiny bit of it. Pine-sap has an unmistakable odor. I've smelled the distinctive odor of asphalt/tar when working on Case-Shot shells with that matrix.
Callicles wrote:
> In other words, was the switch to iron balls codified in some order from the Confederate government like the one affecting the switch to the replacement fuses? Or was the switch to iron a gradual one based largely on availability?
The switch was immediate at major CS artillery shell manufacturers, like Tredegar and Samson-&-Pae in Richmond, but smaller manufacturers seem to have continued using lead for a while even in the "new" copper-timefuzed 12-pounder Case-Shot. I've owned a few such balls, with a copper fuzeplug but no sideloader plug, and weighing almost 11 pounds, which means they must have lead case-shot balls inside them.
CarlS wrote:
> The CS Bormann was discontinued in about 1862 and the side loaders showed up about a year later so there would appear to be no overlap.
No offense, but there definitely was overlap. According to Mike O's research, the CS Ordnance Department's first order for manufacturing Sideloader 12-pounder Case-Shot was placed in October 1862. Bormann fuze manufacture was stopped after prematurely-exploding ones caused many Confederate casualties at the battle of Fredericksburg, in December 1862. Existing stock got used up, rather than destroyed. We know that Lee's artillery fired a good number of CS Bormann-fuzed 12-pounders at Gettysburg.
Although we know when the first iron-ball (Sideloader) Case-Shot shells were ordered, we cannot know precisely when they first got used in battle. Sideloaders were produced in time to be present at Fredericksburg (Dec. 1862), but because they were used in the Second Battle of Fredericksburg (May 1863), we can't tell when the ones we dig at Fredericksburg were fired.
I should mention, there is definitely some significant lag time between ordering, manufacturing, and first use in combat. More than just the few weeks lag we'd assume.
CarlS wrote:
> Checking around I've found Bormann replacement fused shells but not another example of one with the Bormann fuse in it. Does that mean when these were made they weren't using the Bormann fuse?
Yes. Insofar as I'm aware, use of the CS Bormann Replacement papertime fuzeplug did not occur until latter-1864, as a desperation tactic to get some use out of the many leftover Bormann shell-bodies from the condemnation of the CS Bormann fuze in very-late 1862 by E.P. Alexander.
Noonanda wrote:
> IIRC the change to Iron case shot happened in mid-summer 1862 didn't it? Cant remember where I read it (and I defer to the experts) but wasn't it after the 7 days battles due to a lead shortage?
You might be confusing the Spring 1862 discontinuation of Confederate manufacturing of lead artillery sabots with the October 1862 switch to iron case-shot balls. The 7-Days battles (end-of-June/start-of-July 1862) were the last gasp of Archer projectile (lead sabot) usage in Virginia, except for a few that (in desperation) were sent with Lee into Pennsylvania, and got used at Gettysburg.
Regards to all,
Pete
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Pete,
No problem. I'd rather be picked on than ignored. :o
The 'no overlap' comment was meant more along what the direction for manufacturing was. There certainly could have been anything used at any time. Finding unused components, returned ammunition, etc. could certainly cause the one-offs that seem outside what is expected.
And wasn't everything fired at Gettysburg?!??! If you look at the stuff on eBay it would appear that 2/3rds of all relics were found in southern Pennsylvania. >:(
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That is some incredible information, Pete. Thanks!!
I want to make sure I’m understanding this before I go off telling other people the wrong thing.
I have a friend who found a 12-pound Bormann fused Cannonball (not a sideloader) a couple years ago. It has a Confederate fuse. He sent me pictures of it, said he could shake it and hear balls moving in it so it is a case shot. He said because it is Confederate it has iron-balls because only Confederates had iron case-shot. I really didn’t know enough at the time to say otherwise.
So my telling all this is to make sure I understand it correctly. Seems to me from reading all this, the rule is: if no side-loader, no iron.
If I call him up and tell him that his shell can only have lead case-shot, that there is no way his ball has iron case-shot in it because his is not a side-loader, that only side-loaders could have iron Case-shot (or lead) would I be correct in telling him this or am I missing something? I just want to make sure I understand the issue before I tell him or anyone else.
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Callicles, it is at least "possible" to have iron case-shot balls in a shell with no sideloader plug. It was a very laborious process to produce, requiring considerable skill when you're working only through the fuzehole to arrange the balls in the proper format. That is why it was much simpler to go with the Sideloader method.
There is also this possibility:
SelmaHunter put me onto a book (whose name I can't recall at the moment) which contains the reports of a CS Ordnance Department inspector, who was sent on a mission to tour various CS Arsenals and manufacturers to make sure they were producing artillery ammunition according to Ordnance Department instructions. He was dismayed to discover that two Arsenals were still making Case-Shot shells by "the old method"... simply mixing the gunpowder in with loose balls -- no matrix at all. So, it is theoretically possible that your friend has one of those.
But that doesn't answer your question about whether your friend's 12-pounder CS Bormann Case-Shot contains iron case-shot balls or lead balls. The solution is to convince your friend to weigh it on a precision scale like a Postal Shipping scale. A 12-pounder with iron balls will weigh somewhere between a half-pound to one pound less than a lead-ball one. (I'm speaking of their "average" weights, there... they can vary by a lot, see next paragraph.)
I currently have eleven iron-ball 12-pounder Sideloader Case-Shot shells at my house, and they weigh 9 pounds 10 ounces to 10 pounds zero ounces. Lead-ball 12-pounder Case-Shots tend to weigh 10 pounds 4 ounces to 11.0 pounds.
Based on those weight measurements, and keeping it simple... here's my "rule-of-thumb" for anybody who wants to print it for their records.
For 12-pounder Case-Shot shells:
9 pounds 9 ounces to 10 pounds 2 ounces means iron balls,
10 pounds 4 ounces to 11.0 pounds means lead balls.
But of course, as we've seen with civil war artillery projectiles, some exceptions to any rule will always turn up. For example, a dishonest manufacturer could cheat on the contract by not putting as many balls into the Case-Shot shells as the Ordnance Department specifications called for, and bribe the Ordnance Inspector.
Regards,
Pete
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Just to muddy the water some in this discussion, I have a 6-pounder side-loader case shot with a Bormann replacement fuze in it and an iron side loader plug. But that is different from what Pete said about no 6-pounder Bormann-fuzed side loader has been found.