Differences in .54 & .58 calibre minie balls

[callicles]

Today, my hunting buddy and I found a couple of fired minie balls and we are trying to determine if they are .54 or .58 calibre. Being fired, it can be hard to determine. Another person who was in the field with us said that the weight of the bullets would determine which was which.  My question is this - Did the different calibres of minie balls all have the same weight or were some different depending on how much lead was used in the molding process.

1. The other person stated that a .58 caliber weighs one oz.

2. Based on this he concludes that all one oz minie balls are .58 caliber.

3. Can 2 minie balls of the same caliber have different weights? 

To sum up, we feel like we found "fired" .54 calibers, but the other person is saying because of the weight, it must be .58 calibers

[Pete George]

  The M&M bullet book and the T&T "Handbook" give the super-precise weights of the many-MANY varieties of .58 and .54 minies.  Check those books,  There are "short" and "long" versions in both calibers.  A "long" .54 can weigh more than a "short" .58 minie.  So, the weight cannot always be relied upon to tell whether a fired, smashed, un-size-measurable minie is a .58 or a .54-caliber. 

[ETEX]

Just to add to Pete's post check RBTRF IV at the Enfields and you can see how heavy some of the .54 Enfields weigh. A few of the .54 weigh in the 520 to 580 grain range.

[joevann]

Ditto the experts.  Weight has nothing to do with caliber, only the diameter does.  That's where a quality set of micrometers comes into play.  The caliber is the diameter of the lands in the rifle (not the grooves) so in a fired round that would be the indented part of the rifling marks.  Unfired rounds in a muzzle loader with be slightly smaller than the bore whereas breech loaders will be slightly larger.  Fired rounds, of course, will BE the bore size.  They had to travel through it, after all.  During the hieght of the war, most minie balls were swaged, rather than cast.

[Jim T]

Callicles, you asked a bigger question that you thought.  Basically, caliber is measured only by diameter and you'll need a set of calipers to get an average measurement.  As Pete points out, there are heavy and light bullets found in every caliber.  I often use the weight to tell me if there might be air bubbles or other flaws in a bullet; or to illustrate how an especially deep cavity affects the weight; or as evidence toward a "solid" looking bullet being hollow (as in being possibly an incendiary or explosive round).

Joevann, sometimes weight does indeed have to do with caliber.  Some bullets, most notably for the Tennessee rifle, were ordered "by the pound" ... such as 40, 50, or 60 bullets to the pound. 

Callicles, measure the bullets to get the caliber.

[joevann]

Yes, JIM T, you a correct, but those are round balls, not minie balls, which are the subject of this thread.

[Jim T]

Nope, the bullet moulds were for "minies" ..........

[callicles]

Guys, I just wanted to thank everyone here for their comments.  I've learned a lot.

[Jim T]

Okay, I found the quote (see RB4, page 185)...

The Tennessee State Military Board was ordering bullet moulds.  "You will have bullet moulds made to cast Minnie Balls for the Common Rifle to suit Guns of the calibre of 40, 50, 60, 80 & 100 to the pound, & also to fit the Miss. Rifle."

[joevann]

I have no doubt the quote exists, I simply doubt probability of 100 minie balls from a pound of lead.  Do the math.  I haven't seen too many .22 caliber minie balls.  1 pound equals 7,000 grains.  A 70 grain Minie ball?

[joevann]

In addition, a common .58 minie ball weighs in the area of 500 grains.  ( a .570 round ball is 279 grains)  Even 40 to the pound would be 175 grains.  That is the weight of a .50 round ball.  Minie balls, by their design are almost twice as heavy as a round ball of the same caliber.

[tennesseelead]

And you could have heard a pin dropped.
kp

[joevann]

Did I say something rude or stupid?

[Pete George]

  Nothing I've seen in the forum, Joe. 

  The lack of response may be due to the fact that some of our members view the forum at least once a day, and other members view it less frequently, depending on how busy their offline life is.  (Kinda like checking for new email... I check three times a day, and my wife checks her email box once every three days.)  I suspect you will be getting some responses to your very good analysis.

Regards,
Pete

[ETEX]

Joe, I don't see anything rude or stupid in your post. I added what I thought was necessary with the Enfields and you do make a great point on the grains to pound ratio. I can add a good example to what Pete mentioned on how often folks can check the site. I work 7 days a week from 1430 to 0300 and try to check the forum prior to heading to work like I am doing now.