MM-407

[ETEX]

On the previous forum I ran a post on the MM-407 listed as a musketoon bullet with a thin rim. The T&T handbook does not have a cross reference listed for the bullet nor could I find it in RBTRF Volume 1, 2, or 4. MM list the bullet as a US used bullet. I have two of these with the providence of one being dug in Louisiana. The other I do not have a solid providence but the bullet folks I have talked with believe the bullet is mainly found in Louisiana. This bullet has always interested me with the deep cavity and the thin rim. I would appreciate information from diggers and collectors on origin and dig locations of this bullet. I am looking for any and all available information. I do know this bullet does not come up for sale very often. I welcome any and all inputs.

[ETEX]

Wes, thanks for the response. That is the same kind of information I have gathered and I hope we get more comments and data on this bullet.

[Bill Ewing]

Mine I have had for years is from Port Hudson as well.

[emike123]

I got mine from PIA so he'll have to weigh in for me as I don't have the provenance.

[PIA]

Hello emike,
The specimen you have from me was one in a large batch of 3-ringers I purchased years ago.  Unfortunately I do not know where it was found. 

[ETEX]

Gary it's great to hear from you on the forum. I bought a MM-407v off of you several years ago and you didn't have the dig location of that one either, but it's nice having a MM-407 and a variant in the collection. Do any of the forum members have any information on production of this bullet or is it going to be one that may have been a locally manufactured mould and used in limited areas like the Trans-Mississippi or in select locals of the Western Theatre. Have any diggers found any of these bullets in the Atlanta Campaign or Eastern Theatre sites.

[ETEX]

Wes, That has crossed my mind. It's a possibility.

[acwbullets]

Can someone post a picture of what they believe is a pistol carbine bullet. Does anyone have the documentation to prove that the plug cavity three groove bullets are indeed for the Pistol Carbine.

I am just not quite understanding why pistol carbines would be used late in the war. We dig camps of troops that were issued the pistol carbines around Harper's Ferry area and these bullets don't show up at all. The plug cavity foreign mold bullets are found in quantity in certain camps at Antietam and some of them are found with the wood plugs still in the cavity.

Does anyone find these bullets in mid war camps?

[ETEX]

Ian, that is a great question. I know about a year and a half to two years ago the plug base minie started being called a pistol carbine. I have seen no research or writings on the "pistol carbine" with the plug base to date, just have seen the name placed on any 3 ring plug base 58 caliber bullet. Clarification and pictures like Ian stated would be great.

[Jim T]

Don't any of you have "Round Ball to Rimfire" Part One?

[acwbullets]

Yes, I have the book but I still think the majority of these rounds were used in muskets rather than pistol carbines.

[tom buckley]

[quote ...but I still think the majority of these rounds were used in muskets rather than pistol carbines.
[/quote]
Ian,

I would have to agree with you on that. My theory is that they are from moulds based on the dimensions of the pistol-carbine bullet and were used in whatever they would fit.

[emike123]

I have the book but its easier to get you guys to tell me whats in it than it is to remember what I read.   

[Daveslem]

Mike,

I've actually read all of RBTR part 1, half of part 2 and a quarter of part 4 but all
I could tell you about bullets are they're made of lead, I think. I actually collect them
by their shape. The weirder the better.

[ETEX]

I have gone through RBTRF Volume 1 again and did find several mentions of the 58 caliber Pistol Carbine and numbers produced at different arsenals. The only picture/photo I found was the diagram showing the new ball and the pistol carbine with the plug cavity and these are just that diagrams to show measurements. The MM-407 has a medium to high base and from Volume 1 I don't see a close resemblance of the bullet photographed and pictured in the book. I have several plug base 58 calibers without the high base that may the the pistol carbine mentioned in Volume 1. Like Ian, I would like photos of what individuals believe are the Pistol Carbine to compare to the MM-407.