McKee & Mason Taxonomy for MM-461 through MM-510

[ETEX]

When the Colts are being discussed remember that many different companies produced the colt bullet and moulds so there are so many variations in sizes.

MM 461 – Carved
MM 462/463/466 – Richmond Sharps new style 1st Pattern produced with the diameter to small. All the same bullet.
MM 464/465 – Richmond Sharps new style 2nd Pattern produced with the correct diameter. Both bullets the same bullet.
MM 467 – Sharps Short Carbine with a dimple in the base.
MM 468 – Spencer
MM 469 – I have never seen this bullet any inputs appreciated.
MM 470 – Known to collectors as a Joslyn but I have never seen one with crimp marks for a metallic case.
MM 471 – Spencer
MM 472/473 – Fired/Carved.
MM 474 – Henry
MM 475 – Belted Sharps and a very rare and hard to find bullet.
MM 476 – Listed as a Von Lenke but this bullet is not a Von Lenke. It is a MM 418/419 poured without the base plug. See TT Handbook 144.5 and Stelma 06-217 and notation with the four photos.
MM 477 – Fired/Carved.
MM 478 – I agree as post war or photo/bullet was so bad it was unidentifiable.
MM 479 – Bartholow with a dimple/13 Cavity.
MM 480 – Colt Army with a terrible photo.
MM 481 – Ballard
MM 482 – Hazard for Army Revolver
MM 483 – Wesson
MM 484 – I agree post war
MM 485 – Sage Revolver
MM 486 – A Ballard that appears to be the same as MM-481 with an extended or longer rebated base.
MM 487 – Von Lenke – I have never seen one and don’t believe this was a ACW period bullet.
MM 488/489 – Watervliet Arsenal, both the same bullet.
MM 490 – same as above with serrations
MM 491/492 – Elam O. Potter for the Colt “Army and Holster” Revolver
MM 493 – I am not familiar with the Rafeal Revolver. I don’t know what it is.
MM 494 – I don’t know what this is but it is not a LeMat Revolver bullet.
MM 495/496 – 36 caliber Colts with the MM 496 known as a Whitney. I believe they are one and the same.
MM 497 – Richmond Labs 3rd Pattern 36 Caliber Colt
MM 498 – Known for years as a Prescott but I am not convinced the MM 495/496/498 are not the same bullet in just small variations in sizes.
MM 499 – 36 Caliber Colt
MM 500 – Know for years as an unknown revolver and then was being classified as a “Leech and Rigdon”. The Thomas brothers attribute this bullet being one of the varieties produced at the St. Louis Arsenal. I am in agreement with their assessment.
MM 501 – Dunno, looks like a dollop of lead, not a bullet as far as I am concerned.
MM 502/504 is the same bullet and is the Allen Lip Fired bullets.
MM 503/505/506/507/508/509 are different shapes and sizes of the Colt Root Revolver or Pocket Revolver.
MM 510 – would like to hear inputs from others on this bullet. I don’t have the 28 caliber in my collection but I do have the MM-146/TT 13 32 Caliber Smith and Wesson.

I wished I could have added more information but the bullets are what they are. You can only say so much about a Ballard, Wesson, Spencer, etc. and then when all the Colts are thrown in and are just slight variants from one another it isn’t the most interesting of section of the bullets. As usual for a Friday night I have just come in from a long twelve hour plus shift and hope I did the bullets and the forum member’s justice with the information. As always constructive criticism, comments, and different thoughts on these bullets is more than appreciated.

I am stopping at the MM-510 and the next section will pick up the MM 511 through MM 558 and I will defer this section to someone with more knowledge on the explosive bullets utilized during the war.

[misipirelichtr]

All right, I fully expect to get pounded on this one, but I have not bought into MM-476 as being a MM 418/419 without the base plug.  I had more than one discussion with Tom Stelma on this one, and we both agreed there are merits to both points of view.  I've tried to ascertain if both 476 and 418/419 were recovered in the same camps, and I've not found anyone who has found both at the same sites.  Most of the 476's I've been able to document recovery location were found in Camp Wigfall or other late 1861 camps in Northern Virginia.  I know of at least one fired 476 that has base extension in place.  Also, I'd think if the base extension was simply a mispour, more would have been recovered with the base extension carved off.  I'm a relative novice in the world of bullet study and collecting so go ahead and beat me up on this one!  Just looking for more evidence before I'm convinced

[Jim T]

Looks good to me for the most part.  I'm glad you brought up points regarding the many "Colt" -like bullets being variants of the same.  Ammunition was made for a specific caliber of weapon, rarely for a specific type of gun. 

mm467 - these were made in several US arsenals with paper cartridges and tails...even though the new model cartridge (of linen) was officially adopted.  The tell-tale "dimple" from a machine punch is on the base.

mm469 - with out spending any time to look it up, I'd guess this is post-war from a metallic cartridge.

mm470 - I agree with your comments; not a Joslyn and had to have had a paper or linen cartridge.

mm482 - made by Johston & Dow...notice the extra high rebate on this one.

mm481/483/486 - Ballard or Wesson???  Good question.  I know that the Ballard and Wesson cartridge were interchangeable as far as fitting in the weapon.  However advertising of the era also uses images of 1-groove and 2-groove cartridges interchangeably also and the boxes usually state they are for Ballard or Wesson rifles.  For myself, I'm sticking to the 2-groove being a ballard and 1-groove for the Wesson, but that's just so I can serarate the two.

mm502/504 - good eye.  Yes, all the Allen bullets have those two raised bands.

mm510 - I have several .22 S&W cartridges, dug and non-dug, the bullets just don't look like the modern .22s.  #510 is a modern .22 in my mind...appears to have serations in the grooves.

I agree with misipirelichtr's comments.  I disagree with you Wes; maybe not all carved, but fired bullets often have their features "scraped" off. 

[ETEX]

misipirelichtr, it's great to have another digger/collector's thoughts on the bullet side of the relics. We have just a few that post on the bullets so any and all of your thoughts, ideas, inputs are appreciated.

I also had several long conversations with Tom on this bullet. I want to add another thought to ponder. With RBTRF IV on the street there is no reference that the MM-418/419 was a Selma bullet. If that is the case maybe the focus should shift to the origin and any/all information/documentation of the 418/419 to attempt to find a definitive answer on what the MM-476 is or is not.

I have seen photos of three fired examples and they were all from Virginia and too much money to add to my collection. Unfortunately I do not have a dig location on the 476 in my collection.

This bullet has been discussed numerous times on the old forum and may have been addressed since the new forum began. What are your thoughts on the bullet? It would be nice to have more information available on the bullet to be able to nail it down to exactly what the bullet is but I am afraid we will be stuck with the dig locations etc to determine the origin of the bullet. I am one of those who happen to believe it is a mispoured MM-418/419 based by comparison and similarities to the bullets when placed side by side. That is not the best way for identification but what else is out there at this point to make a true determination. Hopefully documentation will surface and the true identity will be a known and accepted answer.

Jim, if my memory serves me correctly I vaguely recall you not necessarily buying into this thought on the bullet and with your comments above reinforceing my recollection. Your thoughts?

[misipirelichtr]

ETEX, thanks for your note and I hope to get the chance to meet you in the near future.  My MM-476 was recovered from a 1st Texas Regiment Camp, near Dumfries, VA.  I purchased it from the gentleman who, along with his hunting partners, recovered several MM-476s including one fired example.  In his research of the 1st Texas, and the camps in the vicinity of Dumfries, he established a pretty close tie between recovery locations of the MM-476 and 1st Texas Regiment camps.  Based on e-mail correspondence, and a bit of additional research that had an early muster of the 1st Texas in New Orleans, I have to wonder if there is a tie between New Orleans and the bullet.  I know the one Tom Stelma has photographed in his book was from the NOLA collection, but the recovery site is unknown.  As far as I know, none have been recovered in western theatre sites.

The story of the 1st Texas Camp as written by Mr. Robert Alton can be found at the following web site: https://billriski.backpackit.com/pub/1707764.  The following is exerpted from that article: "With just over 225 rounds recovered, 75% were .69 cal smoothbore, 10% .54 cal smoothbore, 9% was a mix of .36 and .44 cal pistol bullets, 3% Smith Carbine rounds, and the final 3% were a mix of .69 cal rifled 3-ringer bullets, and most importantly several Von-Lenke bullets (one of them being in fired condition.) For consideration with regard to the Von-Lenke bullets is that they were carried exclusively by the First Texas Volunteer Infantry Regiment in this period and theater of the war. These bullets have been recovered over the years, from several First Texas picket posts within a three-mile radius of Dumfries, VA."
 
Glad to be a bit of a contributor to the forum.

[ETEX]

Great information and references.

The bullet in my collection was bounced from digger to collectors to dealers and is now in my collection without a true providence to the dig location but I am not aware of any being dug outside of Virginia either. If any diggers have found this bullet outside of Virginia it would be greatly appreciated to know.

When I get a chance I will crop the pic of mine and get it posted to the site.

[dlw1610]

My MM 476 is fired & came from lst Texas Camp at Dumfries per Nick Harris, widely respected digger & collector.