New proof of civil war rifled cannon "Fixed" shells

[rommack]

Hey guys I thought I would add a few pics of a 3 inch Mullane Shell that was in the cache from the Big Black River.  The wood block has warped a bit but is in good solid shape.  I'm having trouble putting all the photos on on post so I will do 3 posts.

[rommack]

here is my second photo.

[rommack]

Okay This is the final photo.

[joevann]

What is the title of the 1861 manual to which you are referring, Dan?   I have have several with that publication date.  Since most manuals of that date make only passing mention of rifled projectiles (if any)  I can only assume that the mention of tow would be refering to the cartridge bag still being seperate with no sabot being used.  You can't tie a bag to a round ball with no sabot.   However, in the case of seperate cartridges, the preferred method was to close the forward end with a wood cartridge block.   Cartridge bags themselves were made of close woven wool and of only two pieces:  a circular pices for the bottom and a rectangular piece for the end.  I make no claim to expertise on Confederate ordnance.  During my career, it was the one field of ordnance I never worked in.  McKee & Mason seem to think it was for tying on a cartridge bag, and since it is wood, this in engineeringly feasible.  Of course, Mckee & Mason also show Archer type projectiles having a wooden sabot covered with metal that covered the entire base of the projectile and would preclude the knob on the base from being used for anything including tying on a cartridge bag.

[joevann]

Best Mullane I've ever seen!  As John has said though, and a good woodworker will confirm, cutting a groove in a curved wooden piece is a common method of preventing splitting.  The purfling on violins, guitars, and mandolins (the strip of inlay around the edge) is not just decorative.  A groove has been cut to prevent splitting and cracking.

[emike123]

Hearsay!  Please provide the written historical records that say that splitting is the reason why the groove was cut in the wood part ;-)  As you know, form follows function, not the inverse so please do not try to find a reason for that groove that is not proven in museum displays

[joevann]

Hoisted on my own petard.  However, I was referring to the groove on musical instuments.  That I can definately prove.  As to the groove on the Mullane I am willing to admit it could be either/or.  Who knows what a coonass might try?

[emike123]

Touche   Love you man!

Those Big Black River Mullanes are awesome aren't they?  I need to get me one!

[6lbgun]

Joevann,
      The manual I was referring to is "Ordnance Manual"  copy right 1861.  It is under the section discussing the 32 pounder and 24 pounder howitzers.  It talks about a method of using tow when sabots are not available.
There is no mention of rifled projectiles.  It does show that was a method keeping the powder from coming in contact with the iron when no sabot was used.  The bag was tied over the tow and over  the shot.  This same method of using tow could be used on rifled projectiles thus avoiding the "engineering and ordnance no-no" that you spoke of.
Dan

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike, go back and read my comment about the groove in the Mullane.  I prefaced my statement with the word "could" which forms a question not a statement of "unmistakenly" fact.
Regards,
John

[joevann]

The method with the tow refers specifically to shot, and the section only deals with spherical ammunition.  Am I not correct?

[6lbgun]

Yes
Dan

[joevann]

Here is something that I think explains the "fixed" designations on shipping containers and returns.  We must remember that the Ordnance Department not the Artillery Corps had control of labeling boxes and issuing ammunition.  This would have been the controlling manual for this during the ACW.   By this reference, rifled ammunition could be classified as "fixed", but that in no way means that the cartridge was absolutely tied to the projectile.  This note is from page 48, which covers classification of ordnance and stores.

[Robert Gregory]

Regarding the 20 Pdr. Rifled "Fixed" ammo crate, the powder bags were not attached before shipping.  They were stacked in the middle of the crate, lengthwise.  Thin lengthwise removable partitions may have been inserted to separate the shells from the powder.  There is a good example of a Hotchkiss canister crate featured in Dean Thomas's book "Cannons" that show three lengthwise compartments.  The canister lined the two outside walls and the powder bags were placed and stacked in the center section.  The end panels were grooved to receive the partitions.

[Daveslem]

Very interesting thread but have to say I'm a little disappointed in some of the replies. Pete is one of the Godfathers of artillery and has earned it through his many years of fieldwork and study. He always takes the time to explain in detail his thoughts on many topics within his area of expertise. I feel that he's being disrespected in this thread and hope it returns to a gentler form of debate. If I offended anyone or am out of line to say this its just how I feel.