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Author Topic: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;  (Read 5023 times)

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« on: December 23, 2015, 03:01:05 PM »
To All Interested;
      This one is posted for the benefit of those that may have not seen or heard of the 10 sec. navy Bormann Time Fuse.  Perhaps it was a navy requirement because their cannons had a longer range than their field counterparts.  I am hoping that Pete and others can add to this post with images and information.  Thank you and Merry Christmas.
Kind Regards,
John

CarlS

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 04:26:55 PM »
Neat rare fuse for sure   Nice images as always.

One thing of interest regarding this fuse to me is the number of large caliber cannon balls that are missing their (presumably 10-second) Bormann fuse.  I wonder if they blew out or were never installed.  I've heard they fired them without fuses to use them as solid shot?  But at least one disarmed shell had powder in it which given the center hole in the underplug makes it a candidate for a bore explosion.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 10:31:57 PM by CarlS »
Best,
Carl

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 08:14:09 PM »
Note:
    Perhaps my comment about the Navy needing a longer time for use in longer ranges might be in error.  In Jack Bell's introduction of Heavy Smooth-bore cannon  he sites ranges shorter than field use.  In this respect, I may need to yield to Jack's knowledge about the large smooth-bore cannon.
    My question is this then? Why did the Navy need a 10 sec. fuse?
Kind Regards,
John 

Selma Hunter

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2015, 09:44:28 AM »
Gentlemen,

This is certainly not my area of expertise (not that I even have one of those) but Cuz' Barts' question begs a mathematical moment. 

The 7" DB Brooke Rifle had a range of approximately 4.5 miles. 1 mile = 5,280 feet.  4.5 x 5,280 = 23,760 feet.  Allowing a very high muzzle velocity of 1,500 Feet Per Second a projectile would be aloft for 15.84 seconds if fired to this maximum range - well outside of the burn time of a 10 second fuze (if posible to fire at 0 degrees elevation - obviously impossible) .  If the projectile is fired with the intent of exploding directly on or in a target then the math, worked backwards, dictates a range of exactly 2.8409..... miles. 

Seems to me that the art of "gunnery" was, of necessity, complimented heavily by the art of "fuze cutting".  Enter the matters of Mortars, howitzers and indirect/high angle fire and the variables could drive even a great gun captain to drink.

Afterthoughts include the fact that there are two naval engagements that might offer something to ponder insofar as ranges for such.

March 8, 1862 at Hampton Roads CSS Virginia opened fire on the USS Cumberland (a large stationary target) at a range of 1,500 yards. This shot was fired by an outstanding naval gunnery officer (Charles Carroll Simms) in the immediate presence of two more outstanding naval officers - Franklin Buchanan (in the US Navy since 1815) and Catesby ap R. Jones (among the best ordnance officers in either navy with 30 years in the US Navy).  The first two rounds caused heavy damage.  The Cumberland received the fatal blow from the 1,500 pound iron ram at the Virginia's bow.  The maximum time elapsed from firing the first round at 1,500 yards (assuming Virginia had an 8 knot maximum speed) and reloading to fire the second shot was no more than 11 (10.8 actually) minutes - extremely fine work requiring a superb performance in a crowded casemate crewing a large caliber gun.  Remember, the subject of this paragraph was range at initial engagement.

The second example would be that engagement between the CSS Alabama and the USS Kearsarge off Cherbourg Harbor on 19 June 1864.  Again, the primary CSN weapon was a 7" rifle (Blakely).  The range was approximately 1,000 yards and the battle continued at that range more or less until the ships had circled 7 times. 

Given the stated engagement ranges of 1,000 to 1,500 yards for hard hitting rifles the time of flight for projectiles would not exceed 3-4 seconds. 

I would think that the greater ranges where the higher fuze burn times would apply were between land batteries or land batteries and vessels.  IMHO.

Merry Christmas everyone.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2015, 12:33:04 PM »
Merry Christmas to Bill and members,
      I am dazzled by your quick math as applied to this topic.
With regard to your statement: "The second example would be that engagement between the CSS Alabama and the USS Kearsarge off Cherbourg Harbor on 19 June 1864.  Again, the primary CSN weapon was a 7" rifle (Blakely).  The range was approximately 1,000 yards and the battle continued at that range more or less until the ships had circled 7 times.

Given the stated engagement ranges of 1,000 to 1,500 yards for hard hitting rifles the time of flight for projectiles would not exceed 3-4 seconds."
     The Blakely was rifled and I am not sure if this 10 sec. Bormann was made for its shells.
    I think maybe Jack's statement about close ranges would be applied mainly to sailing vessels and not ironclads.
   In field artillery spotters were used to correct projectile impact points, it is hard to imagine a gunner making accurate shots while looking through a gun port with the ship rolling and pitching.
     Perhaps the 10 sec. Bormann was make primarily for the 9,10, &11 case shot.
    Thanks Bill for your  mathematical application.
Kind Regards,
John 

Jim J.

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 02:02:17 PM »
Merry Christmas to all,
With regard to the CSS Alabama engagement off Cherbourg, I will add this tidbit of information.  The Conservation Research Lab, at Texas A&M University, conserved one of the Fawcett & Preston 6" guns (#153) off the CSS Alabama.  The final setting on the rear gun site was the lowest possible elevation, point blank range - less than 400 yards.  I have included a few images for your enjoyment.  The front sight was missing it's iron insert (spike), and the rear sight was concreted in this position when found.  The elevation setting screw (originally iron) was corroded away, and the surrounding concretion inadequate to cast a replica.


All the best,
Jim J.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 03:03:13 PM »
Hello Jim,
    Nice close-up, can you give us an overall view so we can see where  we are looking at?
Regards,
John

Selma Hunter

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 03:14:20 PM »
Bart,

Never meant to imply that the Bormann was used in the Brooke or Blakely, just using those guns as examples because of the max range and time of flight, etc.  Anything less just adds weight to my point.  As a "Navy" Bormann, Bart's example had to have some practical application. 

FWIW, the Blakely was on a deck pivot - no issues with gun ports on that one.

Jim, 

Thanks for your addition.  I've seen the "Alabama" "tubes" at Lasch and Mobile.  Well done, both.  The "short range" settings on the guns might have applied to skip/ricochet firing attempts.  Spoke with Jack B. yesterday and he felt that elongated projectiles were not used in that mode.  I tend to think that they were, but again - I'm not the authority on that one either.  When one considers the number of elongated projectiles recovered with watercap inserts in place I am forced to believe they were there for cause.  Seems that one of my period navy ordnance manuals calls for their use.  Will have to go back to that one!

Again, Merry Christmas to all!


Jim J.

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 03:49:22 PM »
Okay folks, you are going to have to forgive me here, as I only have a tongue in cheek photo that shows the position of the sights on the F&P cannon.  The rear sight is on the left hand side of the breech, and the front sight is just above the left trunnion shoulder.
This cannon was a smooth bore, and fired spherical shot - which could be "skip" fired.
Sorry these images a bit large, so you are going to have to scroll left & right.
Now, y'all though that they did not have color cameras on the CSS Alabama.

I am a true southern boy, I grew up in South Africa (southern hemisphere!) and learned a ditty (song) as a kid, "There goes the Alabama" - that commemorates her visit to Cape Town in 1863.
Jim J.

emike123

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2015, 04:15:39 PM »
This is a difficult fuse to obtain and as a result I am sorry to say this example I am sharing is in inferior condition.  Interestingly, it has the "high lip" construction.

CarlS

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Re: U.S. Navy Ten Second Time Fuse;
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2015, 08:27:17 PM »
Jim,

Great info and thanks for sharing.  Love the picture too!
Best,
Carl