Adding the sabot to the James Type I Projectile;

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

     Members are certainly entitled to their opinions.  In the past we have been starved for official references now that we have one we question it.  I have said all along that some sort of Reservoir  was used to surround the base and plug the center to pour the lead into and I believe the collective weight of the lead would force it down through the holes, especially if dusted with mold release. Perhaps David's mixture is thicker that that used in the sabot.
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

John,

Thinking about the process, the filling of the void between the tin and ribs required three things:
1) Liquid tight space to fill which we know was the made by tin and something (sand/pasteboard/something else).
2) Hole to pour in the lead.
3) Hole for air to leave as lead went into the space.
The more I've thought on this I think the answer is a  mix of the holes being for filling verses venting.  Perhaps 2 of them filled the void and 2 vented it.  Afterall, the space is small and it wouldn't take a large fill hole.  The lead can be kept quite fluid to flow well by heating the shell.  Then a quick dip in water once full and it'll cool and the filling device can be removed so the 4 sprues can be cut off on the bottom.  That's my final guess.....I think...

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Thanks Carl, that is about it.  Remember the area surrounded by the tin sleeve was not air tight so the lead would fill by gravity until it backed up out of the holes. Hopefully we have all learned a little more about this fascinating shell.
Kind Regards,
John

[CarlS]

John,

I think at fill time the sleeve would have to be air tight.  Lead is quite fluid when melted and it would escape much of any hole.  My guess is they had something to hold the sleeve tightly against the shell body while filling.  You just don't ever see lead smeared on the iron which I would expect if not air tight and something leaked.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,   the extract from the patent you will find that the shell with tin sleeve in position is placed into a form t6o keep it tight, but it is still not air tight.  Any lead that seeps out hardens almost immediately. See Jon's photo of the seam, some lead has leaked out and appears to be filed down.
Regards,
John

[emike123]

Here is a picture for you John.  I hope it helps.  It is of the remains of a 3.8in James shell the bomb squad got their mitts on, leaving a view of the inside of the lead sabot.

[alwion]

I see some delamination on the lead panel on the left side. is that corrosion or part of the inside "sleeve" that kept the lead from the inner part of the shell?

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl, An excellent piece.  Can you re-shoot as a jpeg and at a higher resolution you might want to consider a three shot panoramic view starting at left real closeup but show completely from top to bottom.
     Any idea why the three ribs broke off so cleanly? Interesting in that it shows the top and bottom wires to assist in keeping the lead and tin in one piece.
Thanks very much, any chance of them finding the rest of the shell?
Kind Regards,
John
P.S. the left panel is a good question.  A well focused shot might give the answer.

[emike123]

John:

I think you are referring to the picture I posted, not Carl.  As I mentioned in the post, a bomb squad did this to the James shell.  In other words, they blew it up.  About 80% of the shell was recovered afterward, but unfortunately it is not in my possession, nor any other forum members, to re-photograph for you.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike, my apologies.  I didn't even look and thought it was Carl responding to my previous posts.
So there is absolutely no possibility of borrowing it long enough to re-shoot it?? It is such a magnificent frag.  Did you get to see it in person? Or did someone send you the image?  I am trying to determine why the three ribs broke so perfectly and the left panel has my curiosity.
Kind Regards,
John

[emike123]

Someone sent me the picture.  It appears that the bomb squad folks shoved the charge up inside the ribs and that's why it broke them that way.  The underside of the powder cavity was also blown open leaving the nose and fuse intact.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

So there is no way to get images at a higher resolution. Nose with fuze either??
John

[emike123]

I just emailed you all the different photos I have of it.  There are 7 showing the various pieces.  That's all that is available at this time, but if at a later date it becomes available for closer inspection and I am aware of it, I will let you know.

[alwion]

not normally attracted to fragments, but its such a neat piece. I keep studying it, and just can't see how it got formed inside( course thats the question) my only thought was a series of rectangular barrier( unknow conposition) held in place with the wires mentioned above. but would be terribly labor intensive to place a ring of them around the shell

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Was your question how was the lead formed or how the birdcage was formed??
As far as the lead is concerned, go back to the beginning of this post and read the excerpt from James patent.  The 'bird cage' was formed with a sand core in the same manner as the explosive chamber. you can also see the image showing the workers in an assembly line.
Kind Regards,
John