Requesting Bormann Fuse Interpretation

[Jine]

 Should I be reading this as a 5½ second Bormann? I'm seeing one additional ¼ second hash mark beyond the 5. I can attempt to take better pics if required.

 TIA!





This last image is just an overall view of the landscape:

[emike123]

I don't think so.  I am headed out today to do some field research for the Bullet and Shell Forum (I know you all cannot wait!), but when I get back, I can post up a picture of a "true" 5 and 1/2 second Bormann fuse if noone else has.

Pete, among others, feel free to weigh in here.

Pete, by the way, I was going into  retirement party (not mine) when you called last night and headed back out now so please don't think I am ignoring your voice mail.  We can catch up on that shell later in the week as there is no rush.

[Pete George]

NOTE: I've edited the prior version of this post, adding some information, for better clarity.

Jine wrote:
> Should I be reading this as a 5½ second Bormann?

  No.  Your fuze is not a 5-&-1/2-second Bormann fuze.  Your fuze is yankee-made, because its time-index starts with a 3/4-second line/hashmark.

  As you already know, but some readers here may not know, a Confederate-made Bormann has the 1/2-second line/hashmark at the beginning of the fuze's time-index.  (In other words, there are two lines/hashmarks before the number 1 mark.)

  US Army Bormann fuzes begin with a 3/4-second line, and end at either 5 seconds or 5-&-1/4 seconds.  Confederate Bormann fuzes begin with at 1/2-second line, and end end at either 5-&-1/4 seconds or 5-&-1/2-seconds.

> I'm seeing one additional ¼ second hash mark beyond the 5.

  The 5-&-1/2-second fuze would have two hashmarks beyond the 5 mark. 

  I don't have a good clear photo showing the 5-&-1/2 second version's two lines/hashmarks ater the 5 mark.  Perhaps Emike will be able to provide a close-up photo of that version for you.

Regards,
Pete

[Jine]

   Thank you, gents, for the replies. I "knew" 5½ seconds would equate to Confederate, but was trying to avoid making such a suggestion pertaining to this fuse. Some confusion arose from the images on Melton's Bormann Time Fuse page, where an example of a Federal 5 & ¼ second fuse is shown with no hash mark beyond the "5" itself.

   emike123, I'll look forward to seeing your fuse image!

[callicles]

Another way to know whether or not it is CS or Us is to check the little pie-slice on the fuse.  Pete George taught me this.  Not that you were specifically questioning whether it was CS or US, but the picture shown is the exact type I found.  There is a 90 degree pie-slice.  So, with a prima facie glance, if you see the 90 degree pie-slice, it is Union manufactured and any discussion as to whether it is CS should be tabled.  Did I say all this right, Pete?

[Jine]

Thanks for that tip, callicles. That's easy enough to remember and would work at a glance, I reckon!

[emike123]

I think a more accurate heuristic would be if it has a 90 degree pie shape, it isn't CS, but the converse does not hold as can be seen below:

Top row are US fuses.  Left one has the "A" for Allegheny Arsenal in the pie piece.  Center one has the reinforced center given it a distinctive "double slot" appearance, right one is marked with stars



Bottom row are CS and you can see the differences in the "lip" height in this side view of them, so not all CS Bormann fuses have an extra high lip.

[Dave the plumber]

        where is this 'pie piece' we are looking for on the fuze ??

        And by the way, if I am not mistaken, the US had a high lip Bormann fuze too

[emike123]

Yep, the Feds had a high lip too but a lot of people think the lip means CS only.  Pie piece is circled in this pic if it works with my fancy new Snagit software:

[Dave the plumber]

       Mike \ all,          that is a very important piece of information you gave, that most  people, dealers and collectors  are not aware of. 
   
     ' Not all high lip Bormann fuzes are CS made, there are a scarce number made by US manufactures and used in the Civil War."     
       
    So, we need to check any high lip fuzes to determine who made them before assuming they are CS manufactured.         
   1]    check the size of the numbers  cast on the fuze
   2]    count the number of 1\4 second ticks before the number one
   3]    does the fuze have one wrench slot or two cast into it
   4]    are there any markings in the casting; US, stars, A, directional arrows
   5]    check for the 90 degree pie piece

   anything anybody wants to add, please do.
   I know there is something about the underside of the fuze and the amount of tiny holes for the powder train to burn through, that signifies US or CS. But I forget how it goes.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike/David;
       So the 45 degree "pie piece" is Union and the 90 degree is C.S.?   I wonder where the south got such a complicated casting machine as the Bormann fuse cast machine?
John

[emike123]

I think we confused you, John.

It appears that CS are always "45" degrees.  US can be either 90 or 45.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

OKay, now we ca't tell for sure.
Does anyone know about the fuse casting machine?
John

[6lbgun]

  For what it's worth, measured five CS Bormanns that I have.  All are measuring about 60 degrees of angle.
Dan

[alwion]

Since the pie shape no longer confirms CS vs US, except the 90 degree being US, does the number of ticks before #1 also not confirm a CS fuse, if its a US with the smaller wedge shape?