Shell Storage

[Pete George]

  Well, I'm sure they are all now former death packages.  Unless, of course, you happen to be under that 300-pounder Parrott when it falls off the display table it's sitting on.

Regards,
Pete

[John M. Brooke]

Lamar, that is interesting about your ancestor. One thing about living here,
You never know who might be related to someone in the war. I remember
Growing up I attended a new market reinactment. I told my grandfather all
About it and he didn't seem to want to talk about it. He was a Baylor and all
He said was " you know Col. Baylor was killed in the war, and we didn't talk about it"
Strange even after all those years it is still a sore subject. It turned out it was
Col. William Smith Hanger Baylor of the Stonewall Brigade.

[divedigger]

actually I do have a 200 pounder on my end table that my wife wanted me to put there. I does make me nervous because it has no sabot and half of the base lip gone. Falling over is a possibility, not to mention the fact that the end table was built for a lamp and a tv remote, not 150lbs of iron.

[Garret]

You definitely need a relic room for all your artillery, and other Civil War relics.  Once you have one it will be your FAVORITE room in the house.  My relic room has a glass door, so visitors can see in if they like, but it does have a keypad lock for security.  I also have a nice comfy chair to do all my reading there too.   Best place to be after a hard day at work.

[John M. Brooke]

Garret, I think if I had a room like that I would never leave the house. One last question concerning preservation of ordnance
relics. It seems to me most people focus on electrolysis than coating the exterior of the shell, what about the interior? What
prevents humid air or moisture from getting inside the shell via the fuse hole and deteriorating it from the inside out? I suppose the only way to thoroughly coat and peotect the inside would be to cut it in half. I personally have no problem with cutting shells,
however I have spoken to some die-hard preservationist that feel cutting a shell is the desecration of an historic artifact.
What do you all think? 

[scottfromgeorgia]

I like cut shells, because cutting shows the technology of the shell. There are many details that you cannot see without slicing through the shell. I think a good collection has a mix of both.

[CarlS]

Hello,

Iron to rust needs three things: iron, oxygen and moisture. My experience has been that iron relics deteriorating by rusting is increased with:

• Temperature change
• Environment humidity
• Rust and dirt that can hold moisture against the surface
• Surface coating

Number 1 seems to cause the biggest impact to them.  Being iron, they have lots of mass and thus can't change their temperature as fast as the surrounding air might. This can cause them to sweat like a glass of iced tea on a hot and humid day if the air around them warms at a good rate.   The amount of sweating is greatly impacted by the environment's humidity (#2).  This has a bigger effect on rusty dirty shells (#3) as it will hold the moisture to the metal longer allowing for more breakdown of the iron.

The reason I mention #4, the surface coating, is that I've found that not all coatings fully protect the iron from moisture.  Much of the above was gained from an experience where I loaned a number my shells to a small museum for display.  The building gas heat was turned off at night and back on in the morning.  The rapid heating of the room caused the shells to sweat every day.  Within a time I noticed the rust forming on the surface of some shells.  The ones that developed the surface rust were the ones that had a coat of Bri-Wax on them.  Those coated in polyurethane did not rust; they just got wet every day.  So even if you use Bri-Wax or something similar I would recommend a light coating of polyurethane to be safe.

That said, if the iron is kept in a controlled environment such as one's house then you should see no rusting or deterioration whether coated or not.  I have uncoated and uncleaned iron that has not rusted a bit more because it's kept indoors with heat and A/C to control the temperature and humidity.

You are correct about the interior issue as well.  I've seen shells sweat enough that a small pool of water would collect in the powder chamber.  Coating the inside with polyurethane would help protect for more rusting but again if kept in a controlled environment this should not be an issue.  While I'm too lazy to coat my shell interiors I do know a couple people who do (at least one of which is a forum member) and I think it is generally a good idea.

My thought on cutting shells: For common stuff in bad shape I don't have an issue with it but I do hate to see nice or rare shells that have been cut.  That said, there is a wealth of knowledge that the half shells have given us regarding construction.

[Jine]

John, Jine - I live in Staunton (I'm Tom McPherson, "Lamar" came from Lamar Fontaine, a distant relative who saw a lot of action, wrote about it, & who might be the biggest liar who fought in the War Between the States).

John, a good time to catch Pete is at one of the Richmond relic shows. The next one is Aug. 18 & 19.

http://www.nstcivilwar.com/cgi-bin/show.asp

Pete - can I pick up that James shell at the show?

 Tom/Lamar,

 We should get together some time to compare iron and such, maybe we could split the distance with John and meet up in Greenville over coffee. By the way, if Lamar was the biggest liar to come out of that conflict he might be the biggest liar that ever lived!

[callicles]

Hey Guys,

I have a 12 pd. Napolean case-shot.  It is cancerous -- I found it in soil that is often flooded. After electrolysis and coating, it still chips.  I've resolved to putting elmers glue on parts that literally cave off.  Y'all have been taliking about cutting shells.   Mine might be a candidate.  However, where would I go to get mine cut?  Is that a common thing done by people who normally work on "shells"? 

Any help would be appreciated.

[emike123]

It sounds like a good candidate for the chopping block.  For a long time it was tough to get folks to cut them for a reasonable price.  The going rate was the cutter got half which usually was a bad deal.  Thankfully, there are a couple more reasonable alternatives out there now.

Is it inert and are you 100% positive it was thoroughly flushed and emptied?  Where do you live? 

I'll PM you back with a recommendation or two based on your response, and for all the other folks reading this, no, it is not me!

[callicles]

eMike,

I live in Mississippi.  All I know is that I sent it to a person down here that is known for disarming shells.  He did the work, I paid him the money for services rendered, and he sent it to me with the promise that he disarmed the shell (case-shot). I know that it took him a while to do it.  He stated that it took him forever to get the gunk, powder out. That's all I can say about that.  I just trust that he did the work (he comes recommended -- if that's worth anything.) What are the "more reasonable alternatives" you speak of in your thread?

If I were to do it, I'd like to pay straight-up, not share in halves on the cutting.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[John M. Brooke]

Jine, Augusta County Civil War Ordnance Collectors Association!
All three of us!

[CarlS]

Callicles,

It's pretty hard to describe in a few words in a forum blog how to tell if something is disarmed but I'll offer a few general comments for what it may be worth.  Make sure the disarming hole is larger than 1/4 inch.  It's very, very, very, very hard to adequately wash a shell's guts out through a hole that small.  I recommend at least 3/8ths inch.  I would first find a piece of rigid non-ferrous (copper, aluminum, etc.) wire and push it in the hole.  If it doesn't go at least 3/4 of the way into the shell it's not been washed out very well.  Then I would use a syringe and inject water into it and make sure enough goes in that you feel like there is a bigger cavity than just the path of the drill bit.  I would then let this sit overnight and in the morning go outside in the yard and pour it out.  If it's black it needs washed out more and is best done with pressurized water and a copper tubing fitting that is drilled to shoot water out of the sides so it can spray the whole shell interior.

This will give you some piece of mind that you won't have to worry about making someone's day bad because they were cutting on your shell and it wasn't empty.

As an aside, I spoke to someone who some years back cut quite a number of shells in half.  I asked him if he was worried about the steel blade cutting through the shell and setting it off.  He said he wasn't because he cut with water on the blade and at a slow pace.  Also, for most of them, he used a special (expensive) blade that had some special diamond edge rather than teeth.  It cut faster and better plus he figured it wouldn't spark.  It all sounds reasonable but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Again, just some thoughts I figured I'd share for what they may be worth and in case anyone else finds them of value.  You could show it to someone with good experience disarming and get a 2nd opinion for more peace of mind.

[speedenforcer]

even if there is no spark, there is going to be a lot of heat generaed that can and will ignite black powder.

[Jine]

Jine, Augusta County Civil War Ordnance Collectors Association!
All three of us!

You've got me working on the membership cards already. I'll make a few extra in case anyone else shows up on the forum.


CWArtillery, the someone you mention evidently was betting his life on the process . Better he than me, and I reckon also thee!