Rev War Cannon Balls - French Made

[CarlS]

Hello,

Relicrunner suggested I share this as possibly a nice short departure from our Civil War discussions.

I have been acquiring some Rev War projectiles here and there as I ran across nice ones and have developed quite a liking to them.   You have to be patient to collect them as they don't come up often.  Some I have came from some forum members.  While I live in northwest Georgia where there was little to no Rev War action, it was an interesting time in our country's history and I find there is more variety in the projectiles than I would have imagined.  Recently I had a chance to acquire some really choice items and thought I'd share them along with a couple I already had.  So I put them in front of my fireplace for a group shot.  They are, left to right:

• 13-inch Mortar embossed with "IMBRECHY", the French foundry.  Found near Yorktown.
• 8.5-inch French Mortar with a raised flange around the fuse hole; also known as a "lip ball".  Lip complete but iron not slick.  Found near Yorktown.
• 18 Pounder French solid shot with fleur-de-lis cast. From Fort Ticonderoga.
• 12 Pounder French solid shot with fleur-de-lis cast. From Fort Ticonderoga.
• 8.5-inch French Mortar with a raised flange around the fuse hole; also known as a "lip ball".  Quite good iron but lip chipped.  Found near Yorktown.
• 13-inch French Mortar with a raised flange around the fuse hole; also known as a "lip ball".  Very hard size to get. Unsure of recovery location.

It is interesting that these are all French.  Reading about the Rev War you really develop a sense of how many French and Germans fought for the American side and helped us win.  Here is relic recovery proof of the French help.    I hope you enjoy.

[Dave the plumber]

          ya gotta love those lipped mortar balls !!  I have seen very few of them, and ones in good shape like yours are rarer still.  Congrats!

[swest47]

I think I saw a fellow that had one on eBay for sale. Although he thinks it's a CW.

[Pete George]

  If you wouldn't mind an info request... I'd like to know the precisely-measured weight and diameter of each of them, excluding the 13-inchers, because they'd require too much effort to ask you to do.

Regards,
Pete

[relicrunner]

What a sight.....at least I can say that I have touched them......

[CarlS]

Dave:  Thanks.  They are cool and felt fortunate to have a chance to get them.  My daughter is mad now because I had to pull her out of college to pay for these!   

swest47: Is it still available?  I've not seen it out there and would appreciate a pointer.

Pete:  I'll see what I can get. Of note these are not perfectly round, especially the 13-inch balls, so the measurements will vary to some degree.  I don't have anything to get the accurate weights.  Bath scale accuracy will have to be good enough.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

 Carl,
Col. John Biemick, USA ret. has a collection of this period including English spherical shells.
John

[Pete George]

Free friendly advice:
  Owning a digital Postal Shipping scale has proven to be invaluable to me, as a collector and dealer and researcher.  For example, by using it, I can tell whether a woodfuzed 12-pdr. shell is a Polygonal Cavity -- or not -- and even tell what type of Polycav it is.  I can also tell whether a no-sideplug 12-pdr. Copperfuzed ball is an ordinary Common-Shell, a Polygonal (and what type), or a lead-ball Case-Shot.

  Here's a link to a good one for sale on Ebay, at merely $20.50, which includes free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Accuteck-70lbx0-2oz-All-In-One-PT70-Digital-Shipping-Postal-Scale-W-AC-Postage-/320907590253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab7953a6d

  Be sure to specify whether you want the US pounds version or the Kilograms version.

  Like mine, it weighs objects up to 70 pounds ...in increments of one-tenth of an ounce (up to 30 lbs) and in two-tenths of an ounce increments from 30 lbs to 70 lbs.  Runs on 3 AAA batteries, or the included AC adapter.

  Ebay also has many other models you can choose from... but of course, be wary of a supercheap price (like $3) combined with a $20 "shipping & handling charge."  http://www.ebay.com/sch/Shipping-Postal-Scales-/109749/i.html

Regards,
Pete

[CarlS]

Thanks Pete.

I've been asked about the French arsenal mark and fuse holder so here are an image of each:

The 1-inch high letters of the "IMBRECHY" arsenal marking:



Lip around the fuse hole to support the wood fuse adapter:

[emike123]

How fitting for the 4th of July!  Happy 4th to all.  Celebrate freedom 

These are neat shells.  Additionally they tell the story of how the French saved our butts during the American Revolution.  We paid them back a million fold in the 20th century, and with that, their own revolution going off the rails, and the general state of France nowadays, we tend to forget their original contribution and dismiss them.  One of my cousins (yes Carl, I have a few) is a Member of the Society of the Cincinnati which tracks back to the French contributions in our Revolution.

[ETEX]

Extremely interesting shells. Yall just keep posting this kind of stuff to get me to venture away from collecting just bullets.

[CarlS]

Etex:  I know what you mean.  The forum discussions have caused me to venture a little into the lead side of things.  I don't have the rare or real odd ones but I have picked up a few and, more importantly, did go throught and organize them.  I was surprised at how many I had and paying that close of attention to them peaked my interest even more as I started appreciating the sutle differences.

Pete:  Since you asked and since I wanted to know as well I got them measured and weighed:

• IMBRECHY: Diameter: 12 7/16 inches  Weight: 60.85 kg
• Lip Ball: Diameter: 8 9/16 inches   Weight: 18.1 kg
• 18 lber: Diameter: 5 1/8 inches Weight: 8.4 kg
• 12 lber: Diameter: 4 15/32 inches  Weight: 5.5 kg
• Lip Ball: Diameter: 8 1/2 inches   Weight: 18.9 kg
• Diameter: 12 3/16 inches   Weight: 67.05 kg

Note since they are French balls the weight is in kilograms.  Many thanks for Jim (Relicrunner) for the loan of the really good digital shipping scale.  The 13 inch balls were heavier than I thougth they would be.  I was also surprised to see the 18 lber weight in at 8.4 kg (18.5 lbs).

[alwion]

I looked around, and those baby's are hard to locate for sale. very neat collection, thanks for sharing

[swest47]

I just checked and I can't find it. I should have watched it.

The fellow called it Civil War but it had the lip looking thing on it. I was going to tell him it wasn't Civil War but I haven't seen every shell there is, so I kept my mouth shut so as not to appear a bigger fool.

[Pete George]

  Carl, thank you for the effort of you put into precisely measuring and weighing those balls, in response to my question.  The data you've provided confirms what I discovered when I precisely weighed and measured a cache of RevWar cannonballs that got dumped into a river here in Virginia.  (That is why asked you for precise measurements of your RevWar group.)  Cannonballs from the Colonial Era tend to be a significant bit smaller in diameter than Mid-1800s cannonballs.  Apparently, the increase in projectile diameter is due to advancements in metal refining and cannon-casting that resulted in "stronger" cannon metal, which could withstand the increased bore-pressure created by smaller windage.

Regards,
Pete