Cosmopolitan Type II

[ETEX]

Looks like we can discuss the Cosmo Type II's more in depth. The arsenal versus the field poured bullets should be an interesting thread. The limited number of sites/troops association/flaws make it appear to be a field cast bullet. I am looking forward for more inputs on this portion of the thread.

[Big Lefty]

If it were an arsenal-produced bullet, it would have to have been either Arkadelphia or Shreveport.  Given that very few of these bullets are found on sites that post-date the fall of Little Rock and the relocation of the Arkadelphia Arsenal to Marshall/Tyler Texas, I'd guess Arkadelphia would have been the site of manufacture.  But I'm not totally convinced they are arsenal-produced.  If so, one would think many more would have been found, especially in Arkansas.  Of course, finding bullet-laden Confederate camps that span the fall of 1862 and 1863 has not been an easy task.  Apart from the few found at Prairie Grove, Crystal Hill, and Helena in Arkansas and the one site in Louisiana, they're just not prevalent enough to have been a mainstay of one of the arsenals.  But then again I could be wrong.  It certainly has that "Gardner" look to it, but they are much more delicate without the cup insert and the cavities are not nearly as deep as .54 Gardners.

[R.L. Bryant]

I know of examples from Sabine Cross Roads, a couple found near Texarkana, a single example from near Mena Arkansas, a couple of others from the Fort Smith area, a few from Cain Hill Arkansas, and of course, the batch from Prairie Grove.  All of the ones I have in my collection (24 fired and unfired) and all of those others seen from the other mentioned sites are very obviously the products of a single mold cavity.  I've had photos of others sent to me over the years, and they too all appeared to be from the same mold, though some of those also appeared to have been "trimmed" of the base flashing, but the offset mold halves were still prevalent.  Side by side with a Gardner, there are as many dissimilarities as similarities.  I think it is interesting that the Prairie Grove pieces all appear to be concentrated in an area no wider than about 100 yards, with a couple of the fired pieces being found farther "down range".  What might help in the arsenal/field mold controversy would be to trace troop movements of specific groups at or through the specific locations found on up to Prairie Grove, and see if we can determine if they abruptly ended there.  Then again, there were obvious "back tracking" movements that would be hard to pin down, Cane Hill for instance.  But so far, everything to me still indicates a single field mold in favor of an arsenal produced bullet based on the evidence.

[Skip]

Where to begin?
 
When the War first started volunteers, especially those in the southern armies, brought all kinds of arms with them to the field. This created a tremendous logistical problem because these arms used many different kinds and calibers of ammunition. Ordinance officers were appointed to insure that each soldier got the right ammunition for his particular weapon. Armories were established to produce that ammunition.

There was a good reason for ammunition to be made at an armory rather than allow it to be cast in the field. In the field you would have to have melting pots, ladles, molds, paper, string and black powder. A problem with any one of these items (cracked pot, lost ladle, broken mold, WET POWDER) and you're out of business. At an armory these would only be minor inconviences that could be remedied rather quickly.

The first objective was to make sure that every man was armed with a military caliber weapon. For the infantry this was .54, .58 or .69 caliber.

That said here are the reasons why I'm sure the CCTII's are arsenal productions:

First is the caliber. If you'll go back a few pages in this thread I made a case that these bullets were cast in a modified .54 caliber Gardner mold. Please go back and read it.

Second is distribution. Terry found his near Shreveport on one of Tom Green's Texas cavalry camp. Big Lefty found his on Pindall's Missouri sharpshooters camp in northwest Arkansas. Years ago I dug 12 of them from two small 1863 cavalry camps at Crystal Hill. That mold sure must have got around.

Third is research. Most of you have read numerous personal narratives written by participants in the War. How many have you read where they tell about casting bullets in the field?

Okay, rip my throat out.

[R.L. Bryant]

Here is one additional bit of information that might relate.  At Cain Hill (between Fort Smith and closer to Prairie Grove) where troops headed to and from Prairie Grove are thought to have camped due to the proximity of that location only a very few hours march from the Prairie Grove Battle Site, there were several bullet molds and much melted led dug in years past.  Does this "prove" anything ?  Not really.  But it is an anecdote that opens the door to possibilities in the current discussion.  Was "THE" Cosmo-II mold ever found ?  I have no idea.  The ones Bill, William, and I came across were far too rusted to be identified beyond "just a mold", but we heard of others dug in the same general area.  Personally, I tend to follow the single mold theory, with this kind of information doing nothing but reinforcing my beliefs.  But on the other hand, I don't think this is really an issue that can ever be "proven" one way or the other.  If anyone else has quality photos of their examples from both mold lines and bases, I would be more than happy to make some comparisons with those I have on hand.  If these were in fact arsenal issued, it is just hard for me to fathom their being only a single mold involved, and "different" examples should be showing up somewhere.  But again, that is just my feeling on the matter.  While I agree with alot of what Skip has to say here, it is pretty common knowledge that Southern troops did not "always" carry specific military calibers, nor did what was "allowed" or "not allowed" to be used as an offensive or defensive weapon really matter much to those who simply used whatever was available.

[Skip]

Just to make sure I'm not reading something into what you've posted, are you trying to tell us that every known example of the CCTII was cast in just one particular mold?

[R.L. Bryant]

I'm not stating unequivocally that they were without a doubt "ALL".  What I am saying is that I have seen these bullets recovered from Sabine, Texarkana, Mena, Fort Smith, Cane Hill, and Prairie Grove, pretty much the Western Arkansas corridor, and every one of those I have personally inspected, as well as photos of these from other locations, were all from the same mold.  They each, including the bunch I have, all show the worn, offset mold halves (though at different stages during the life of the mold apparently, or with the mismatched halves shifted to differing degrees).  Some of these also "appear" to be slightly different calibers, and some were "trimmed" of the cavity flashing, showing obvious knife "chatter" marks, but still of the same mold characteristics.  How then can we account for differences in caliber "mic" measurements ?  I wondered about that for quite awhile myself, but then went back on some of the "drops" and did some re-measuring, only to find different measurements from different measurement points.  Looking closer, much closer, some of these were obviously "out of round" just enough to produce the different measurements.  I think also that there could have possibly been some differences due to the different lead alloys used, some of which may have actually shrank during the cooling process.  I have experienced this myself back when I shot a muzzle revolver quite a bit.  A cousin and I had an old bullet mold and cast our own shot balls.  There would be instances when we would cast a shot, shear the sprue, and lay the mold down, returning to it long after it had cooled completely, and the ball would actually "rattle" inside the mold cavity, strange as it may sound.  But back to the original question....... Were they "all" from the same mold ?  I don't know the answer to that.  What I do know is that all of the examples I have seen from Sabine north to Prairie Grove all came from the same mold cavity.  If these were indeed an arsenal produced bullet, I think the chances of even that would be extremely thin.  Just my opinion of course, based on those I have seen and found, and professional experience in connection with forensic ballistics through the years via the Arkansas State Crime Lab.

[R.L. Bryant]

Skip, if memory serves me correctly, I think the bullet on the right in the third photo came from you a few years back.  Although it is badly deteriorated, the mold characteristics are clearly the same as those of the bullet on the left from Prairie Grove.  I think it would be interesting to get quality photos of as many examples of the Cosmo-II as possible to see if this theory really holds water.  Seems that would be a good logical place to begin, and then if we can disprove that, we could move on in tracing their use in other areas and maybe back track to their point of origin.  But if those same mold cavity characteristics hold true in the Western Arkansas bullets as well as those you mention from Crystal Hill, Helena, and all other locations where they have been found, well, maybe we need to revisit the route of travel of not only the bullets, but also at the possibility of the route of travel of the mold used to cast them.  I'm as eager to learn as much as possible about these, because I have a great stake in their history, and what I believe is possibly the largest intact group of these from a single location still in existence.  These are really the pride and joy of my collection thus far.  While these are a relative rarity where confederate trans-Mississippian bullets are concerned, I still don't think it is an unfathomable possibility that all of them found to date could have been hand-cast considering the small numbers involved.

[R.L. Bryant]

Skip, I also wanted to ask........ are you referring to Crystal Hill down in Pulaski County near Little Rock ?  I just want to be sure we are not talking the same location when I refer to Cain Hill, south of Prairie Grove.  My high school principal was an avid CW metal detectorist who frequented the Crystal Hill area, a gent by the name of Homer Burnley.  Does the name ring a bell with you by chance ?

[Skip]

R.L.,

First my apologies to Wes for not answering his question about Gardner machine(s) in the TM. While I am sure that the TM had at least one Gardner machine answering that question would have sidetracked us from the discussion of the cosmo. Wes, I promise to post some ideas about that in the near future.

Yes, R.L., Crystal Hill is nine miles north of Little Rock on the east side of the Arkansas River. The first camp I found was a small company sized cavalry camp which produced three of these bullets. As it turned out it was right across the road from a January, 1863, camp of the 27th Arkansas Infantry on their retreat from Van Buren so I'm assuming (red flag) that they were an escort for the 27th. A few months later found another small cavalry camp about a half mile down the same road that I dug nine from. By the way, Meigs dug four .54 caliber Gardners on the 27th camp.

No I didn't have the pleasure of meeting Mr. Burnley. We were hunting there in the 80's and now most of the camps have been covered by the city of Maumelle.

While the CCTII is a fairly scarce bullet it is incorrect to assume that the known dug specimens represent the majority of all those produced. In reality they are most likely just a drop in the bucket. There are alot more out there lying in camps just waiting to be discovered by some lucky relic hunter.

As far as tracing the bullet back to its source let's take a look at what we do know about what units actually used this particular bullet. The greatest number found from one site were found at Cane Hill on the camps of Shelby's and Marmaduke's Missouri cavalry in late 1862. Terry found his on Tom Green's Texas cavalry camp in the spring of 1864 near Sabine Crossroads in Louisiana (at the same time that Shelby and Marmaduke were opposing Steele's advance in Arkansas). Big Lefty found his on Pindall's Missouri infantry camp which was organized in November of 1862 and I found mine on a January, 1863, cavalry camp (at the same time Shelby and Marmaduke were in northwest Arkansas making a demonstration against Fayetteville). I was unaware that specimens have been found at Fort Smith, Mena and Texarkana but that makes it all the more likely that the bullets were supplied by an arsenal. Why would one unit pass off a bullet mold to another unit who then would give it to another still unrelated unit? That just does not make sense.

The reason that these bullets are usually found out of round is due to the thin skirt. The Gardner has a thin skirt which was re-inforced when the bullet was crimped. If you cast the bullet in a Gardner mold and then cut off the base section which formed the crimping you're going to end up with a bullet with a thin skirt.  The cut might also account for the flashing.

Thank you for putting up with my rants.

[Skip]

Don't know if this will help but here's pics of one from Crystal Hill.

[R.L. Bryant]

Notice the difference in the width of the top lands of the two mold halves on the one in your photos, and the offset of the mold halves, along with the location of the flashing remnants at the base ?  Now compare that to the one in my second and third photos above.  This bullet from Crystal Hill is again from the same mold as the Prairie Grove, Cain Hill, Fort Smith, Mena, Sabine etc. bullets.  So whatever the connection is, field mold or otherwise, we can identify these at still another site, bullets from the same mold cavity.  I believe this is the same bullet on the right in my third picture above, the one Bill and I did comparisons on several years back.  I thought I remembered you sending us photos of it before.

The more photos we can get of these bullets from different locations, the better our chances of pinning this down to the single mold theory I do believe.  It seems that even with the numbers found to date, there would have been at least a few with mold characteristics markedly different if these were indeed arsenal produced.  Nothing has swayed me from that theory (yet)........

Rant on Skip.  The more you write, the more I learn.    Thank you sir !

[R.L. Bryant]

Skip, when you question whether these are "cut down" Gardners, are you referring to the bullets themselves being cut off, or the mold being cut (or filled) at the base ?  Since the flashing on most of these appears to be folded inward toward the cavity, I had at one point questioned how it could have been molded in that position, and the "plug" of the mold being capable of releasing the bullet without distorting such flashings.  Either the release of the bullet from the base "plug" of the mold would have distorted the flashing outward, or it would have had to have been cast in the outward position to begin with.  Make sense ?

[Skip]

R.L.,

Having had absolutely no experience as a nineteenth century tool and die maker I am not qualified to judge what makes sense and what doesn't as to how this bullet mold was made. The discussion here should be as to where these bullets were made.

The Hindman Papers are part of the Peter Alexander collection housed at Columbia University. They have recently been transcribed for publication of the Hindman Order Book. Since the cosmo has been found predominately on sites associated with the Cane Hill/Prairie Grove campaign Hindman's papers shed a great deal of light on the logistics pertaining to this campaign.

Hindman's original plan was to attack Blunt and Herron in late summer or early fall, defeat them and then winter his two divisions in Missouri. As you know Prairie Grove wasn't faught until December. The reason for the delay was the difficulty of obtaining arms, equipment and ammunition for the endeavor. This becomes clearly evident in reading his dispatches. Even after the attack was made he had to withdraw from the field after only one day's fight due to lack of ammunition.

Here is one of his dispatches prior to the battle:

Head Quarters District of Arkansas
Camp on Mulberry & etc., Nov 2, 1862
Colonel:
General Hindman has today received the following dispatch:
“Little Rock, Nov 1, 1862
“Maj. Genl. Hindman,
I shipped you on the 29th 970 guns & 80 rounds to each gun. I will send you tomorrow another 2500 guns with 50 rounds to each gun. In a week the General will send you 2,000 more guns. Maj. Geo. A. Alexander is announced as Chief of Ordnance. He has promised me to send you every gun he can.
Sgnd. J. M. Dunnington
Col. Comd’g river defenses.
This in a great degree, will provide arms for the men of this command, so that there is no need of any pro rata distribution.
General Hindman directs therefore that you arm the troops under Col. Brooks as soon as possible, and in the following order and manner:
I. Col. Brook’s regiment to be armed with muskets if practicable, except the right flank company, which you will arm with Enfield rifle.
2nd : The Missouri Troops under Col. Brooks, to be armed with muskets, if practicable, except one company of Jackman’s and one company of Hunter’s regiments, which you will arm with Enfield rifles, if on hand.
3rd: Col. Adams regiment, to be armed with muskets, if practicable, except the right flank company which you will arm with, Enfield rifles, if on hand.
If the Enfield rifles shall be exhausted, before issuing as many as above indicated, you will substitute the next best arm therefore, and proceed in the same manner if the muskets shall be exhausted, being very careful, however, to issue to all the men of each separate company, arms of the same description, as far as this can possibly be done. Be equally careful to issue the proper accoutrements with each gun, and do not, in any case, issue to or for any man not actually present for duty.
At the same time, issue to each command 100 rounds of ammunition for each gun, but instruct the officers receiving the same that not a single cartridge is to be issued to the men without special orders from these Head Quarters.
If there are not sufficient accoutrements of the proper kind, you will issue those on hand to the command, in the same order as prescribed for the issuance of arms.
Captain R. S. Chew is sent to assist in this duty, and will be under you orders. Maj. J. B. Lockman, Chief of Ordnance is in Little Rock. He will probably come up with a portion of the arms. A telegraphic dispatch to him is enclosed, which you will please send from the Clarksville office. You will take receipts in Maj. Lockman’s name for all articles you may issue.
Report progress daily, after a telegraph office is opened here. Report by courier the whole amount of ordnance stores on hand.
Respectfully,
R. C. Newton
Col. A. S. Dobbin A. A. Genl.
Act. Chief of Ordnance,
Clarksville, Arks.

Ask yourself this; If Hindman was having such a hard time procurring ammunition yet had men in the field making their own, why didn't he just detail men to produce ammuniton around the clock?

[R.L. Bryant]

Simple answer in my opinion.  Casting lead (if used) was likely in as short of a supply as arms and (other) ammunition, as well as the shortage of individual bullet molds.  The simple fact that there was a shortage of ammunition would seem to me to be another factor in favor of the field troops using whatever was on hand and available to them, including individual molds and whatever lead/tin materials they could muster, whether from each other, the local inhabitants, or otherwise.  I remember Bill commenting on a natural source of galena (lead ore) that was supposedly located on a small round-knob hill situated between Prairie Grove and Reeds Mountain (I don't recall the name).  We never investigated that any further, so i can only treat that as hearsay.  But had these men had the materials and limited means (tools, molds) to cast some of their own, it likely still would have not been enough.  We know there were field molds carried, and presumably used in and out of the Prairie Grove campaign.  Some of those were found on related sites.   Still, I really don't see anything in the above other than circumstantial evidence that may or may not have any bearing on the basic question here;  (A) Did these all come from the same cavity of a single mold, and (B) was that mold carried by or with the troops ?  Up to this point in time, I have not been convinced otherwise as to (A), and (B) seems to be more likely with each comparison of these bullets with examples found in other locations.  The only real and solid physical evidence thus far are the bullets themselves and their individuyal proximity of recovery.......which by the way I agree were musket fired, as I have yet to see even one (fired) example showing any signs of rifling marks.  I also find it highly unlikely that any arsenal would have limited the production of any individual bullet style to only a single cavity capacity mold.

The common sense question I posed above about the mold had an obvious implication, but I will just let it go, and agree to disagree on this matter if it is raising blood pressures.  This is a hobby to me, not a life and death struggle to prove who is right and who is wrong.