Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: redbob on March 25, 2016, 11:44:58 AM
-
What sized ball fit the James "Hotshot" base? If it was for a 3.8" James was the ball a 6#er or was it a special sized ball?
-
These took a regular 6pdr solid shot. I really think the base was just a sabot like it was for the James canister rounds, but open to being proven wrong on that.
-
That answers my question, thanks.
-
Great question, redbob. So the base was also close to 3.67" like the 6pdr? Or was base closer to 3.8"?
-
The outside diameter of the base is 3.65". Also the ball doesn't fit snuggly in the base, if it wasn't secured; it would slide around in the cup.
-
Thanks, sorry for getting diameter wrong. What I was trying to get at was could the same James hotshot set-up (3.65) also be used in a 6-pounder (3.67?) artillery piece just the same as it could be used in a 3.8" ? James rifle? The reason I ask is that I found a James canister base fired from an artillery unit having both 6-pound smooth bores and James rifles. Just wondering if these projectiles could be interchanged between artillery pieces. Thanks
-
Probably not because there was also lead sheet around the iron and burlap over that. These 2 additional elements of the sabot would add too much to the 3.65" diameter of the iron base for it to fit in a 6pdr smoothbore, at least in my eatimation.
-
Thanks. I see from one of the sites that a 6-pounder gun would fire these things with a 3.63 diameter projectile system, the 3.8 James a 3.65?
-
The 3.8" has a 3.8" bore but the round had to fit down the barrel so was roughly a tenth of an inch narrower. Adding the lead sabot shesthing and burlap to your 3.65" diameter base gets it too big, in my opinion, to fit down the barrel of a 6pdr smoothbore.
-
Thanks. I was just thinking of the below pictured diameter for the 6-pounder.
http://www.civilwarartillery.com/projectiles/canister/IIIA28.htm
-
I didn't mention the tin covering also! Put all that around a 3.65 or 3.63" iron base and you probably aren't going to get it down the muzzle of a 3.67" bored tube.
Early James rifling was done on guns with a 3.67" bore, but the vast majority we know and love were done on a 3.8" bore. Many of the 3.8" guns were re-rifled 6pdr smoothbores.
-
Carl, is that link to the base you found? I thought yours was a canister base though which is shallower than the one designed to hold the 6pdr ball, but perhaps another was found there or the ball was photoshopped to fit
-
The depth of the cup is less than 1/4" on my base.
-
I found one each James canister base and hotshot base back in the 1970's. For some reason I never cleaned them more than with a wire brush. The canister base has a shallow flat bottom and the hotshot base is very cupped to accommodate a round surface. In the area of the canister base I found a few lead balls that looked to be about 1" in diameter but hard to say with any accuracy as they were misshapen somewhat. Both bases have recesses on the edge seemingly for strapping to fit into. See below a couple images of them.
-
Mine appears to be like the base on the right.
-
Redbob,
If yours looks more like the one on the right, it is a canister base, not hot-shot, and is rarer--or so I've been told. Another easy way to tell is to turn it over and look at the bottom. If there is a hole, it's a base, not hot-shot.
-
Reference books seem to be all over the map with these bases, some say that the canister base is 3 3/4" high and some say 3 1/2" also; the hole in the bottom was referenced as to light the variant that had a Bormann fused shell attached to it-why would a base for a "hotshot" have a fused shell? Also some appear to be deeper dished than others-the quest continues.
-
I'm not sure about any hole in the base. I've seen a few of these over the years and none (canister nor hotshot) had a hole in the top portion of the base. Naturally there is a hole in the bottom portion that the upright posts sit on as with any Type-I James but there is no access from below to what sits on top. There wouldn't be any reason to put a Bormann shell on such a base as it would be an expensive replacement for a wooden sabot. If you used a Bormann shell and faced the fuse down toward the cannon charge over a hole it would likely go off as it was fired and fall into that unfriendly fire category.
It seems to me as well that the canister round is less common just based on what I've seen in collections, etc.
-
When I get home, I'll post mine up to see if it will help any.
-
I have successfully misplaced my calipers. Nonetheless, here is a hunk-of-junk I found several years ago and was told it was a James Canister Iron Base. I just now slung up a tape measure against it and took pictures. The pictures are of the bottom of the base, and then a profile, then the top of the base, I can't remember in which order, as I'm too stupid with technology.
-
I Cannot figure out how to describe each within the post. The first picture in the above post is the bottom view; the last picture is the top. The middle is a profile of the item. Again, I've lost m,y calipers and hope the tape works well enough.
-
Callicles,
Thanks for posting and great find.
A couple hints, one of which answers your question, that you and others might find useful regarding image posting:
1) If you attach the images using the forum attachment link you can't post a comment with each image. If you use PhotoBucket or some similar photo hosting service then you can add text between the links you post so they are like inline images.
2) When you take a picture to show an item, especially with a phone on default camera settings, if you have the subject item sitting on a light colored background with a significant amount of background visible the camera processor will tend to make the item darker. If it is a shell or some other dark item then it'll be very dark and hard to see much detail. So either get closer or zoom the camera to fill much of the frame with the shell so it'll adjust the brightness based on the shell color.
-
3.8" canister base with original balls and top plate reconstructed to set atop it -- CansiterD made it and may have enough parts for 1 more!
6pdr "hot shot" base with 6pdr solid shot
12pdr "hot shot" base with solid shot
-
Without sounding like an ingrate (ungrateful person in the South) I am now convinced that I was sold a canister base and now back to the search for a "Hotshot" base. Thanks for all of the most helpful information.
-
Thanks CarlS. Sorry for bad pictures and will take your advice.
Emike, those are wonderful pictures! I hate my pictures are bad, and I hate my base is in bad condition (flood land artifact). But just looking at your pictures, I'm thinking mine is a base for a 6-pounder, not 3.8. But because my artifact is in such poor condition, I'm not sure I could get decent measurements even with calipers. It just seems from your pictures my base looks smaller. If they never made bases for 6-pounders, then I guess I'll have to go with 3.8.
-
Under the classification of all's well that hopefully ends well, the dealer that sold me the canister base instead of the "Hotshot" base has realized his mistake; so the canister base is headed back to him and hopefully my "Hotshot" base is headed my way. In a way I'm a little disappointed, Canister D was going to make me a canister to fit the base-but it may very well still come to pass. Anyway, thanks for all of the great information.
-
Glad it worked out. I hope you post pictures of the hot-shot when it comes in.
-
Damn, crazy stuff............