sea coast fuse?

[alwion]

A friend of mine who relies upon me as his civil war expert ( shows how bad we are off here in indiana) got this somewhere. He was wanting to know what it was, and I didn't know, but research looks like a sea coast fuse. looks to be stamped with a G. measures 1 3/8" x 2 3/4". what I would like to know is
1. is it a reproduction, since the brass casting is so pitted and bubbley. the very few fuses I have are in shells, and they look smooth. this looks like something made in india
2. if he wanted to sell it to me since I'm the only bayonet , shell, and I think CW sword collectore within 100 miles, what would be fair for us both. He probably got it for little or nothing, so will probably keep it anyway

[Pete George]

  It is indeed a genuine US Army Seacoast-Defense timefuze plug.  It was used only in roundshells, not cylindrical-body shells.  The reason this specimen's surface looks "sandy" is it was found in salty soil (such as a coastal saltmarsh), and the salt corrosion has caused what relic-collectors call "brass disease."  Note, this fuze did not have its current "look" when it was dug -- it has been cleaned, probably by Electrolysis, which entirely removed the patina-crust, exposing the salt-caused pitting of the brass.

About its current dollar-value:
  Very importantly, it is 100%-intact, except for the mild surface-corrosion.  Also, it appears to have no explosion or impact damage.  I haven't seen one of these rare fuzes for sale in a while, so I am not currently "up-to-date" on its present value.  Therefore, Emike can give you a more accurate current value-appraisal about this one than I can.

Regards,
Pete

[alwion]

Thanks Pete, I appreciate the info and details. Anyone with an idea of price in this condition, opinions would be appreciated 

[Dave the plumber]

              I believe Carl and Mike have one in good shape on their website for $ 350 and it has been sitting there for awhile. As a fuze collector myself, I judge the condition as a bit rough, but it is complete and not damaged as Pete points out. I would think a retail value would be around $ 300. for the one pictured.    Good luck !!      David

[emike123]

I like it.  I sold the one on the site this weekend, and David bought one last year for $400 from Tom Bailey so I agree with David that $300+ is a good number.  

[alwion]

Thanks. I had never even considered buying a fuse before, oh low another field of study. I made him an offer before anyone had replied, and he had accepted. think he had $6 in it and was delighted at $50 since he owed me $25. Sometimes everyone is happy:). I'm a weird cootie, have sat and "played " with it since I id'ed it. Oh why are sword, bayonets, and shells so addictive!!!

Does anyone know of a clinic or program for shell addiction junkies, I'm afraid I need professional help!!!

[CarlS]

Good acquisition!

And there is no known cure for the disease.  You just have to learn to live with it and keep the symptoms in check.   

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Sir,
So you won't have to disassemble the fuze and possibly ruin it, below is what it looks like.
Regards,
John

[alwion]

Thank you John. so there are different size paper fuses also? the loose 4 sec one I have looks like it would be sloppy inside this, but maybe that doesn't matter. I had figured out it ignited through one of the holes, you could blow through this one, but the channels are interesting. why the enclosed  brass holder at all vs just a fuse holder? so it could hit water and not extinguish immediatley? I'm having trouble thinking a fuse couldn't be made that still burnt underwater, looks like it would once lit.

[CarlS]

The assumption is that by the time the shell along with the fuse impacted water, the fuse burning would be below the watercap.  Then when the shell impacted water, especially if it came in fuse first, the angled channels would slow the sudden surge of water enough that it didn't extinguish the lit fuse allowing the ball to skip across the water and eventually still blow up.  Otherwise the water would so suddenly be forced into the fuse it would extinguish it.  It's a nifty design and it would be interesting to know how many it really assisted in doing any intended damage.

[mccaul]

If you are interested I discuss the Naval Fuze and its evolution in my book The Mechanical Fuze and the Advance of Artillery in the Civil War.  Basically, the gases created by the burning gunpowder along with the bent channels kept the water out.  However, it took a number of years for this to be worked out and the Navy considered the fuze a secret.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Thanks Carl and Ed,
     If I may add to your comments. As Ed mentioned the angled channels and the gas pressure from the burning fuse kept the water from entering the fuse chamber.   It was a common practice to skip the ball on the surface of the water as it hit the side of the ship the ball, hopefully, would sink below the waterline then explode.
the paper wrapped time fuses made at the Frankfort arsenal were all the same size however they were driven to make the powder more dense thereby increasing the time.
The fuse adapter had a lead seal with the burn time stamped into the seal.  The seal was torn off by the loader whcih exosed a mixture of fine powder and spirits.  the angular channels were also filled with this powder mix.
The fuse packages were also color coded with printed time length.
Regards,
John aka Bart

P.S. Perhaps this quarter view will help illustate the watercap function.  This Navy Water Cap fuse adapter works the same as the Seacoast fuse.

[emike123]

One of the many things I learned from Ed's excellent book was that the fuse burn time difference was not a result of the packing density but rather the proportion of one of the gunpowder elements, I think it is potassium nitrate but correct me if I am wrong, used in the mixture. 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hi Mike,
  Ed may be correct with regard to his references.  I try to apply common sense.  If you drive it loose it is going to burn faster, drive it tight, it will burn slower. When lighting firecrackers of the same type, ever notice how some burn slow while others hardly give you enough time to throw them?
That being said, I agree that by adding different  proportions of the standard mix of Sullphur  Charcoal and Potassium will also change the burn times.
I am no authority on time fuses,  please, others chime in.
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

I happen to have a pretty decent example of the center cap for the drive in watercap fuse.  Years ago I found the fuse body with no watercap near Ft. Pillow and recently picked this rare find up to make it complete.  Attached are some images of it showing the 3 holes in the top and one drilled horizonally through the side all the way through.  On the top view, only the hole at 12 o'clock seems to be in line with the horizonal shaft.  I am not sure what the function of the other two holes are unless they are a 2nd set of spanner holes for a wrench which is what they appear to be as they are a touch larger than the 12 o'clock hole and match the two spanner holes on the cap edge.  The hole in the bottom side center also connects to the horizonal shaft and is what transmits the flame to the paper fuse normally located just under it.  I had not heard the watercap shafts were filled with powder and that is interesting to know and makes sense.  I would guess it to be filled with flash powder and not a contributor to the burn time so that a 7 second fuse was just that.

Thanks all.  Interesting conversation and hope the pictures are of some value.