7 Inch Hopson-Brooke Mill Base Bolt;

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To all,
What do we really know about this rare bolt.  It has a Brooke Bill Base sabot syhstem. How does a Mr. Hopson enter the picture?
It was long mis-identified by Warren Ripley.  But information that has come out since Warren wrote his excellent book has added a new name to it.  I have seen the other bolt with the ratchets  in the base to take the Brooke sabot system.?
Can anone add to this thread?  Thank you
I noticed it was mis-I.D. in the Charleston Museum post.
Best Regards,
John

[Jack Wells]

Cdr. J.M. Brook identified this as a "Hobson" pattern in one  his report to Sec. of the C.S. Navy,along with a drawing,some place I may still have my copy off the report. Had the National Archeives make two(2) copies at great expense, Tom got one and I kept the second copy.Sometime later I found a copy in the Engineer School library and told you about it, you had the Navy get you a copy at no charge,I think this was in the fall of 1972.
If I remember correctly,Hobson was from Lampasas Texas and was issued C.S. Pat 106 for this pattern Tri corner point. Brooke shows it on a mill base bolt,again if I remember correctly the patent only applied to the point,and any type  sabot could have been used.
I wrote Ripplel about this twice and never heard from him.
Trust this will help.
Jack

[Jack Wells]

I should have typed "Hopson",not Hobson in the above post.
Sorry
Jack

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jack,
  I vaguely remember getting a paper.  Was there a before and after view of the point after hitting armor plate? as per below? Now Iam trying to remember where I put the paper.  I hope it didn't go with my software to Jack Melton. The diagram is below but no idea where the explaination went.  Got another?
Regares,
John

[Jack Wells]

"That's it", John do you realize that probably over half of the people on the forum reading this were not born when we were doing this,damn wasn't it fun getting this old.

Jack

[Jack Wells]

As for my copy "Lord only knows where it is",and to be honest I don't have time to hunt for it.Between Dr. appointments , working at the Averasboro Battlefield museum ,Rifle and Pistol Club range duty,and duty with 1/2 doz other Org's I belong to, I just do not have time to go thru two (2) storage units,if and when I find it,I'll send you a copy.
As always
jack

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Jack,
I don't think it is important enough to disrupt all your activity.
John

[alwion]

I have a question I think pertains. Concerning armor penetration, what if any effectiveness would the flat top Brookes and Mullanes have over the pointed nose bolts, or in this case the chisel shaped nose. I can see two ideas,
pure force with the flat top bolts, since the armor would mushroom a point as shown in the diagram,
or the point of these other shell forcing a crack for penetration, but wouldn't they mushroom anyway?

Can anyone tell me which was more effective or the reason behind the designs? I've thought about this for awhile and couldn't come to a conclusion

[Dave the plumber]

  has anybody ever dug an armor piercing round, be it in the field or a test range ??  I think that would be cool to see......

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Allen/Dave,
     I prefer to use a better term of "armor defeating" since all do not actually penetrate such as the Brookes and Tennessee Sabot bolts and chilled nose Parrotts  This should be obvious due to the numbers of these shells found.
    I suspect we don't see the Hopson-Brooke bolt as they were shot over water at enemy ships.
    If I recall the text for the above penetration report explains the target construction and degree of damage from this bolt.
The flat headed bolts used kinetic energy to bend the armor and pop off bolt heads to loosen armor.
John

[emike123]

Its a little tough to see in this photo and way clearer in person, but here is a 30pdr Parrott chill nose bolt that struck something hard and mushroomed before snapping in half.  I really think it is a neat piece:

[alwion]

The Force behind that!!!!!!!  I couldn't copy it but Bells book shows a 6.4 Brooke , looks like a mushroom on page 165. That was what I remembered when I asked the question. Seems that anything that could do that would make even a hardened point worthless, as it would flatten or shear off like the bottle nose. Guess no matter what, you beat it enough, it's Gonna leave a mark  lol

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Alan,
I don't think the sharp point was for penetration as it was for anti-ricochet.  look agian at the diagram I posted and see what it did to the oak backed 3 inch armor plate.
John

[Dave the plumber]

 Mike,    looking at your chilled nose bolt,  do you think it  tumbled and hit rear first ??  The mushrooming looks that way. Plus, I would expect some damage to the nose if it hit first........

[emike123]

There is a portion of the nose that is smooshed and maybe it hit at a glancing blow.  It is very difficult to capture in a photograph.  You need to come visit me and see it first hand!!!

Carl and I saw that mushroomed bolt of Jack Bell's firsthand last year.  A lot of folks think it is the cat's pajamas, but I only have this poor man's representative piece.   I will be seeing Jack again soon and if you all want any info on it, I'll be happy to ask if you let me know what to discuss with him.