I.D. this 8" Bolt'

[emike123]

Yes, I think I knew that, but to be clear.

The bolt shown above has a Parrott "rabbetted" sabot and a CS lathe line on the body beneath the nose ogive as well as a nose profile that is CS.  Ergo it is a CS projectile with a Parrott sabot.

If this is not correct in summation of all the verbose discourse above, please advise succinctly.  I can handle rejection!

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Gosh Joe, where I am headed has been displayed in the above posts.   Thanks eMike, Pete and all.
Perhaps the key is in the sabot material , look again.  The first is copper, the second brass.
from a personal standpoint I dislike seeing C.S. added to a name. We see C.s. Schenkl, C.S. Dyer, C.s. Parrott, C.S. Read-Parrott, C.S. Whitworth, C.S. Blakely, C.S. Britten and on and on.
It would seem that the Confederates (pardon me if you are from the South) have no originality save for Archer, Harding, Mullane and Brooke.  But I guess it is okay since all appear to agree that these are proper names.
  So endedeth the lesson. " Things are not what they seem to be"!
John
P.s. Abbot plate for the C.S. Parrott projectiles are not labeled as such as the title plate is Confederate Projectiles, or to that effect.

[emike123]

CS James too!

What prize do I get?

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Oh my! another one.  Please post it for our extended educaiton.
John

[emike123]

Here's one side of the drawing that came with the one I spent a long time tracking down.  For now, this will have to suffice.

[Dave the plumber]

    interesting when drawing the shell, Tom didn't go into hundreth's of an inch, but used standard measurements, even though he drew the James pretty thoroughly......

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Thanks Mike, I had forgotten about this one. Tom?
My question:
Two shells, parrott design, laying side by side, no sabot, no fuse, how do you I.D. them?
John

[emike123]

"Tom" is who did the drawing above.  He signed it.

On your two shells, I would look for other attributes such as presence or not of a lathe lug at the nose, lathe lines (eg., "sleeve") on the side, or lathe dimple in the bottom.  Also, I'd measure the fuse hole diameter and thread pitch and look at how the sabot was attached. 

If none of this works, I'd place it on the ground on its side, and give it a good spin (a la "spin the bottle").  If when it stops spinning, it points North, its CS but if it points toward Richmond, its undoubtedly Yankee.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hello and goodday Mike,
      Tom who?  with regard to fujse hole data, 1 inch with 12 tpi is pretty common.  Anyone who uses a metal lathe uses a countersink hole for the dead center be it C.S. or U.s..
   By the term 'sleeve' do you mean that portion of the shell body that has been turned on a lathe?  I have ro remember that different fountries use different techniques of making shells.
    What are  the differences in the sabot retention design, darn if I can see any.
Thanks for your added comments.
All the Best,
John

[emike123]

Tom Dickey.

Is 1" x 12tpi a universal and common fuse size?  Hit the books and let us know what US fuses that would've gone in a Parrott-looking shell you think are that size.  The Parrott fuse is 1.125" in diameter and the typical Schenkl is 1" in diameter but 10tpi.  A Hotchkiss is a different size too but is never seen in that type of shell to my knowledge.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Got me, it is good that I didn't specify C.S. or U.s.  just that it is common.
I yield to the more knowledgable.
Cheers,
John
P.s. (added)- By gosh Mike I learned something from you today.  There are very few time fuse adapters, compared to C.S. ones, several have 12 tpi but all are at least 1.11 inches in body diameter.
So this may be the key to tell the shells apart, but .11 inches is fairlly hard to measure,especially if the hole is coroded .  Additionally Jones fuse book is the only reference with consistant fuse thread diameter and tpi.
I will put on my dunce cap and sit in the corner until the next one.
john again

[emike123]

I think putting yourself out there educates a lot of folks so don't feel the need to slink off to a corner just yet, John!

Don't forget Col. Biemick's book as a source for fuse specs.  He measured all my fuses and David's 6 ways to Sunday and recorded those in the book of his that just came out and I think you have.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike you are right, Col. John's book is so new in my library i forgot about it (but don't tell him)
 so does anyone know if there are differences in the manner C.S. copied the sabot retention methods.
Do you think they just took a U.s. Parrott and made a sand cast of it then had pattern makers fabricate a casting model ?  If so they will be identical. 
   Perhaps the soft copper sabot stayed on better than the U.S. brass sabots which had to be much harder.
Interesting ideas!  Much more educational than just collecting and  looking at them on the wall.
Cheers,
John

[emike123]

Pete will have to answer the sabot retention question.  Might require a new thread as its likely to be a thoroughly detailed post.