Help with a sabot ID.

[natdigger]

My wife got this for me for Christmas. I have no clue where this was dug. And I am having trouble IDing why type of shell it came from. Any help would be great. It is one inch tall, so much shorter than a hotchkiss shell. And measures roughly 11 3/4" around.
Thanks,

[CarlS]

Third picture...

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
    Unless I am looking at it from a bad angle, the third one looks like an Archer band.
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

The item belongs to Jason (I just helped post them) and he took the (nice clear) pictures so he'll need to confirm but I think they are all of the same item. The sabot looks to be larger than a 3-inch caliber so while not impossible it is not likely an Archer as they are so rare.

[CarlS]

I just did some quick math and based on the circumference being 11.75 inches it works out to a 3.75 diameter but given there was likely some stretching from coming off the shell I would guess it to be from a 3.67-inch caliber round. 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
    Good, I could not tell how large it was without a scale.  Don't forget there was a 6.4 Inch Archer Shell., rare.
I believe the key is in the width of the band and and good clear image of the inside with a focus on how the band was attached to the shell and impressions left by the attachment method.
Regards,
John

[natdigger]

Yes the pictures are all of the same piece.

[Dave the plumber]

I might be looking at it wrong, but is it made of brass ??   It looks like it is brass and came out of the water.....    Archers are all lead, that I know of.

[natdigger]

It is lead.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Chris,
    Below is a lightened view of the first image and shows that there are at least six(6) vertical indents on the shell body. Now what projectile keeps its sabot from turning in the bore in this manner?? Perhaps the rifling would lend a clue, however I can't see them in these images.
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

There also appears to be a lip around the inner edge clearly seen in the first image.  I had thought this would fit into a groove but it appears to me to be the bottom/trailing edge and I don't think it would have been designed that way.  Interesting piece and I'm surprised no one knows what it is.

Jason: Can you tell how many lands-n-grooves it has?

[emike123]

I have a couple Archer sabots and they are different from each other and not exactly like this one.  Both are 3in, but one has the little "Good and Plenty" shaped dimples this one has and so absent another choice I lean toward an Archer too.  Here is a picture of mine recovered near Shiloh, but the dimples don't show so well.

[Pete George]

  I notice that the inner side of the lead ring shows several long rounded ridges... which would fit into corresponding grooves in the sides of the projectile's base beneath the sabot. I do not recall seeing any Archer projectiles with that shape of grooves.  Therefore, I suspect this lead ring is from one of the variations of what I used to call a 3.4" Burton.  That potential ID is supported by the ring's diameter being significantly greater than 3 inches.

  Natdigger, please count the number of ridges on the ring's inner side and let us know.

Regards,
Pete

[natdigger]

Pete, it has two ridges. One at the top of the inside and another and another just under the other.

[natdigger]

Carl it has what looks like 3 land grooves on it. They are very faint, so I assume the gun was worn out when this was fired. I am going to try and contact where she got it from tomorrow and see if they know where it was dug.