Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum

Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: speedenforcer on July 10, 2018, 02:39:13 PM

Title: Rumour
Post by: speedenforcer on July 10, 2018, 02:39:13 PM

I heard that some of the "James Rifles" that are on the Gettysburg B.F. are actually 12# Napoleons that were put on a lathe to make them look like James Rifles. I don't believe this even if it were possible. Has anyone heard this or have info?

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: CarlS on July 10, 2018, 11:56:38 PM

I have not heard that.  What makes the rifled 12-lber you speak of "look like James Rifles"?  Is it because they had 15 lands-n-grooves?   Seems like an enormous effort for something that 99% of the park visitors wouldn't even know was about. 

There are a James shells cast in the 12-lber caliber.  I've only seen fired examples which don't have the sabot so I don't know what rifling was used when they were fired.  The shell isn't in Jack Melton's book or the Dicky-George book to see what they thought although Pete could chime in here if he has any insight to this question.  It is in Col. Biemeck's Volume IV book.  These books by the Colonel offer a ton of information (and all serious collectors should get at least volumes II, III, & IV) but unfortunately for this shell there is no offer of what gun it was fired from.  I recalled that our own Jack Bell has a table in his Heavy Artillery book showing the known cannons and the number of grooves they have.  Fortunately he lists the rifled 12-lber!  Unfortunately it doesn't answer the question because there are 8 different answers from 3 to 18 depending on the maker.  FWIW, none of them are 15 but because the 3.8-inch rifle used 15 doesn't mean James would specify that number for the 4.62-inch gun.

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: Selma Hunter on July 11, 2018, 07:38:21 AM

Guys,

Seems like early on in my work (when I went to Gettysburg in 2005) I heard something about some Bronze tubes being rifled but only a foot or so deep so they would appear to be James Rifles.  Somewhere have a pic down the bore of one gun that is rifled all the way to the wren nest in the chamber.  Will post if able.

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: speedenforcer on July 11, 2018, 10:00:43 AM

That may be what the guy I was talking to might have been referring to.

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: callicles on July 11, 2018, 11:56:11 AM

I’m not sure this helps, but it appears Gettysburg indeed altered guns. See below:

https://markerhunter.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/the-false-napoleon/

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: speedenforcer on July 11, 2018, 12:45:15 PM

That is sad they did that.

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: scottfromgeorgia on July 11, 2018, 06:52:47 PM

This also sounds like a myth: "Eventually two different Confederate brigades fought themselves for the right to claim the guns as trophies."

Title: Re: Rumour
Post by: Selma Hunter on July 12, 2018, 08:35:18 AM

Callicles,

Excellent post/link!  Thanks.