U. S. 3 inch Type II James Shell;

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To All Interested,
     A neat but not a rare shell. Does someone have the Gutta-percha sabot?
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

John,

Nicely done!  I'm impressed with how your skill at the drawing keeps improving.  Quite good!

Jack sold a real nice one of these at Franklin on Saturday.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,  too bad we didn't get a photo of it. Perhaps others have good images they will post? (hint for Mike)
John

[CarlS]

It is a readily available shell.  Not sure I'd call it common but it is not too hard to get one for your collection.  Seems to be a bit of a very poor design to me as they almost never exploded based on the small amount of shrapnel I've found in areas that I found the shells.  This seems to be the case of the Type-I (birdcage) as well.   This design did improve the design flaw of the Type-I losing the sabot coming out of the cannon bore and hitting the friendly troops.  You rarely see them without the sabot so they seemed to hang on quite well.  The one I have missing the sabot and fuse and was found near a CS trench so I think a soldier disassembled it to recover the lead from the sabot likely to cast some bullets.  There was an inordinate amount of lead used in the sabot.  Using some rough numbers from the examples in Jack Melton's book, the Type-I sabot weighed 3.25 pounds and the Type-II weighed about 5 pounds or about 1.75 pounds more.  Since the iron body is also about 1.5 pounds more this makes the complete shell a bit over 3 pounds more.

I have one I found with and one without a sabot and I'll try to get a picture of them when I can get a few minutes.

Does anyone have a recovered sabot lost from one of  the Type-II James?  That would be neat to see.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Has someone the Gutta-percha sabot for the James II?
Regards,
John

[CarlS]

John,

Since you are asking about a  gutta-percha sabot are you implying that the patent described the shell to be built with that?  I've only ever heard of lead as a sabot material on the Type-II.

[emike123]

He is talking about the experimental one shown here.  I shared this picture, but mine does not have the rubber sleeve that slid over the vanes (back off JonPatterson!)

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
   I have not seen it but heard that they existed.  Perhaps Pete can shed more liht  on this.
Thanks Mike.  A very nice specimen.
Regards,
John

[emike123]

See 1993 D&G page 185

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
  I am in Florida and do not have  my references.
John

[CarlS]

I am familiar with that prototype but John drew a Type-II in his image.  Did the patent for them show a gutta-percha/rubber sabot?

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

To Carl,
     Excerpt from Patent  No. 14, 315, Fig. 1 as follows:
 "My improvement consists in using fibrous material, instead of a flexible metallic one, and in expanding it into the scores of the gun by the explosive power of the. powder when ignited by devices hereinafter described. The best material for this purpose is hemp, spun or woven; but cotton or other fibrous material, or vulcanized India rubber, or strips of common rubber woven with gum or other fibrous materials, may be substituted with excellent effect."
  Gutta-percha is also called India rubber.
Regards,
John

[jonpatterson]

Nice looking shell, Mike. Next time I am at your place I think I will slip it my shopping bag when you are not looking.
Jon