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Author Topic: Nice Acquisitions  (Read 8215 times)

CarlS

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Nice Acquisitions
« on: February 10, 2015, 12:41:05 AM »
I thought I'd share an image of a couple shells I was very happy to pick up at Dalton.

The first shell is a very neat 2.9-inch Read shell that I was able to trade with one of the forumites and pick up at Dalton.  (Hopefully he's happy with the deal!)  Though the condition and neat lettering were very nice what really got my interest is that the shell was found around the battle of Kennesaw Mountain near where I live.  While hard to see in my image, it has a 1 3/8-inch rebated area above the long copper sabot.

Also as many people that know me have seen I collect field caliber Brooke shells.  I've been lucky enough to find two over the years which prompted me to occasionally add to that as I ran across them.  At this Dalton Show I was able to pick up another at a pretty fair price.  It is in decent condition.  What it did add to my collection is being the first that is:
  • A short pattern.  It is about an inch shorter than my other 3-inch examples.
  • Was found in Atlanta.  All my others were found at Kennesaw or farther west.
  • Has no number or letter stamped on the sabot that I can see.  There is some chipping of he sabot so there may have been one originally.

The Dalton Show was very good!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 12:44:26 AM by CarlS »
Best,
Carl

Garret

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 04:30:23 AM »
Nice shells, Carl.  Does the Read have the copper or wood fuze? 
"Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself."  Mark Twain

Dave the plumber

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 05:46:01 AM »
          Carl,     if the Brooke is shorter than all your others, could it possibly be case shot ??

emike123

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 07:45:15 AM »
Are you sure the Brooke is a 3in and not a 2.9"?  Still a nice acquisition, but you aren't going to get me to regret having left early...

CarlS

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 08:13:02 AM »
Garrett: Both shells have a hole for a wood fuse.

David: The difference in length isn't a lot; only 1/2 inch.  One of the longer one weighs 8lb 10oz while the shorter weighs 8lb 9oz.  My guess is that it is not a case shot but perhaps I can clean the fuse out a bit and get a better determination.

Mike: Yes, it is a 2.9-inch.  It is just a bad habit I have at calling everything about that size a 3-inch and not being accurate in acknowledging the 2.9-inch brothers.
Best,
Carl

Woodenhead

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 08:46:29 PM »
Excellent acquisitions! I really like all copper-saboted CS Parrotts. Yours tell an interesting story. I believe the long one is early and the short is late-war. They were both made in Alabama where Dr. Read himself set up the first 3 inch Parrotts with his copper sabots in early 1862. There were no 2.9 inch Parrots made in the Deep South until late 1862. All of that caliber were located in Virginia until the Ordnance Bureau adopted that slightly smaller bore as the new Army standard around August 1862. So, your long Parrott was made sometime during the following months and before copper fuze plugs replaced the old wooden type around the end of the year. Sometime around August or September, the Richmond ordnance experts (?) sent drawings of a revised pattern for the Parrott shell to Arsenals and foundries across the South which introduced the sleeved body and recessed base for lubrication purposes. It was an official alteration of the smooth-sided pattern put into effect to a greater or lesser degree by the different Arsenals according to their own interpretations. I have photographed two completely different Deep South Parrotts with iron sabots made during the same period with wooden fuze plugs and lubrication channels at the bottom.

The "smoking gun" is an "S & P" marked Parrott (apparently from the same collection as your shell - how did you miss it, Carl?) whose dramatically different body design best reflects the actual ordnance drawings. This prewar Richmond shop had no peers in the quality of their work. We are forced to put the story together by bits and pieces because so much documentation was lost in the Great Richmond Fire of April 1865. Not many of these shells were made and we can positively date it because they put the first copper plugs in their Parrotts on August 15, 1862 [Citizens File vouchers], and identical examples have been excavated at Vicksburg from a shipment of about 1,000 ten and twenty pounder Parrotts sent west by the Richmond Arsenal in early November, 1862. During the same period, Tredegar began lathing a shallow channel above their Parrott sabots. Pete George found a handful of these at Banks Ford and plenty have come from the Chancellorsville battlefield.

The shorter Parrott was made after June 1864. That month the Deep South Arsenals were ordered to stop using copper fuze plugs in their rifled field artillery. At the same time, a decision was made by some to make shorter Parrotts in accordance with the published conclusions of the Second Board of Artillery Officers meeting in Augusta in late 1863 under the leadership of Col. Rains. In response to sever criticism of that ammunition from the field batteries, they conducted extensive trials and decided that shorter shells were necessary to limit their tendency to tumble. It wasn't until after Richmond withdrew Col. Broun's terrible new pattern Parrott (so-called "Tredegar Parrott," Tred made its last 10 pdr. in March 1863) in June 1864 and returned to the smooth-sided design, that one or more Arsenals took it upon themselves to shorten those shells. I believe all Deep South 10 pdrs. with the Brooke sabot hail from Selma, but I am not aware of the Army Depot actually casting any shells. So, unless I'm wrong about that, I would assume nearby Churchill & Co. made your short shell as they were a major producer of copper-saboted 10, 20 and 30 pounder Parrotts.

Carl, would it be too much to post a base view of your long 10 pounder with the Read sabot. Many of these were sent to VA and I would like to compare with those found at Gettysburg, etc.
Enclosed are photos of two Samson & Pae 2.9 inch Parrotts made between August and October of 1862. The pretty one dug in VA and the other from Vicksburg area. This was the beginning of the lubrication channel seen on others made during the following months across the South.

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 09:34:49 PM »
WH,
   You speak about the "actul ordnance drawings" as though you have seen them. Would you share by private email if too large to post here. Additionally, why were thr copper fuse adapters ordered withdrawn from use?
Kind Rgads,
John

Woodenhead

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 01:41:11 AM »
Hi John,
I fondly remember visiting you at home with Chuck Jones about 20 years ago. That was quite some collection of English fuzes you had! Yes, my use of "actual" was an adjective too far. I am aware of very few original pattern drawings that have survived. I guess I was trying to emphasis the practice of the Richmond Bureau headquarters to dispatch pattern drawings to foundries and arsenals on a regular basis. When Samson & Pae made the mold pattern for that dramatically different Parrott body I presented, it was not something they came up with on their own. They were following directions and the only way we can know what the "actual" pattern drawing looked like is to view the surviving shells as reflections of the Bureau's wishes. In my effort to reconstruct the ordnance developments in the Virginia theater, I have found it useful to read the correspondence (see Correspondence Files of Natl. Archives available on internet thru Fold3) of the ordnance officers in distant places like Macon, Mobile, Montgomery, Atlanta, etc. They regularly discussed the latest patterns from Richmond - sometimes in a critical manner.

As for the end of the copper fuze plugs - I found a report by a board of artillery officers of the ANV's 2nd Corps written at Fredericks Hall Station around April 1st, 1864. It has some interesting conclusions about the current field projectiles and fuzes. Mostly, they tell Col. Broun what he wants to hear. But they do worry out loud about the end of the copper plugs which they say is coming soon. Their concern is that the McEvoy igniters won't sit well on the wooden plugs. Then there is a letter from the Macon Arsenal's Cuyler to Atlanta's Wright penned around the end of June, 1864, declining to fill a requisition for the copper plugs because they have been ordered by Richmond to switch to wooden plugs for all rifled field projectiles. Copper plugs continue for a couple of months in the spherical. I can email copies but they are a little long for the Forum.
WH

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 09:05:30 AM »
Dear Woodenhead,
     I sometimes will make my color plates from original drawings and images.  My Brooke's ring-ratchet was from an original drawing in one of Brooke's reports.
     I am afraid you have me at a dis- atvantage in remembering you being with Chuck. When published, Chuck sent me a copy of his wonderful fuse book.
     It would be most interesting to me toread about shell and fuse commens from the field.
      On the fuse adapters, were they just running short on copper? I have read comments that the gunners liked the McEvoy igntors.
     I have a copy of th Tradegar Arsenal cannons, sureyl those four digit numbers are numbesr assigned to each gun and not quanities manufactured?
      I have not seen a list of shells and fuses made.
Regards
John

Woodenhead

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 10:56:27 AM »
John, I forgive you for not remembering. I was the quiet bearded guy taking pictures for Chuck. You probably realize I published his book. I don't think we exchanged more than hello and goodbye.

As to your questions - one of the most terrible blows the South suffered when the Army of Tennessee was driven into North Georgia in late November 1863 was the loss of the large Ducktown copper mine, the Confederates' only reliable supplier of raw copper. During the early months of 1864, Col. Broun dispatched teams to buy or seize the turpentine and apple jack stills in North and South Carolina. Quite a bit was brought back to Richmond but not enough to justify the continuation of the copper plugs. And yes, the gunners definitely approved of the McEvoy igniters. Numerous invoices detailing the distribution of rifled field projectiles to ANV batteries during the first half of 1864 reported equal numbers of igniters issued with a matching quantities of shells. Sadly, after June 1864, a giant black hole has swallowed just about all the paperwork involving the production and issue of projectiles.

Tredegar's day-by-day production records of cannon, implements, carriages, shells, etc., are available from two sources. Their Sales Book can be seen at the VA State Library and most of their monthly vouchers can be readily accessed at home by viewing the Citizens File available on the Fold3 web site. They back each other up. I have enclosed an example of each. The first with page 118 at the top is from their Sales Book for one week in August 1861 while the second is a February 1862 payment voucher from the Citizens File. They are a little sparse on descriptive detail but there is enough to present a fairly complete picture of their wartime production of guns, shells, and everything else.

Look at page 118's Sales Book entry "6 Boxes = 150 James Rifle shot." These are CS versions of the 3.8 inch James projectile to use with the 9 James Rifles captures a few weeks earlier at Manassas. Only U.S. James shells were captured with the guns. Later entries show Tredegar made about 450 of these whose design is unknown. They were positively sent to the field, however, I know of no surviving examples. Farther down on page 118 is the entry "1 Box - 12 Parrott shell (Manassas)." (Note cost $7.50 per shell - standard 10 pounder Parrotts were then $1.50 each.) These were the first 4.2 inch Parrotts made by Tredegar for the big 30 pounder "Long Tom" captured at Cub Run Bridge. There is a note in the Ironwork's Letter Book asking for two of the rounds to be delivered to Tredegar to make copies. These shells had Parrott's patented cast-on copper sabot on a flared base with a single deep groove. I believe this was the beginning of the manufacture of large "Tredegar Pattern" CS shells with similar copper band or lead sabots that predominated until the Tennessee sabot was introduced at the start of 1862.

The long payment voucher covers Tredegar's projectile production during the first half of Feb. 1862. This is an important one because it records the last of the 3 inch Archers (all were made by Tredegar). You see "479 - 6 pdr. Rifle shell"  and "391 - 6 pdr. Rifle shot." One dollar a piece had been their standard price since they made the first in early 1861. Of course, they called them "6 pounder" because the first 3 inch Rifles were bored from a standard M-1841 6 pounder gun block. Days later, Tredegar manufactured the first "263 - 3 inch Rifle shells with copper saucers at $1.75 each." From this time forward Tredegar drops the "6 pounder" designation in favor of "3 inch". This was the start of the mass-production of the 3 inch Tennessee shells while Tredegar's Archer production halted. Note the entry "40 - 4 pdr. Rifle shells" at one dollar each. These were the 3.35 inch Archers intended for the "reamed & rifled" Virginia state guns. An earlier entry worth considering is "222 - 4.62 inch shell with Fuzes." You know the fuzes were Archer's new safety-pin percussion fuze because the same shells in the following entry "without Fuzes" (i.e., wooden fuze plugs) cost exactly one dollar less and that was the current price of  Archer's patented fuzes which were then made only by Tredegar. Also, these have to be long shells intended for the heavy "Rifle Siege Guns" rather than for a rifled 12 pounder gun whose projectiles were made for $2.50 each. All of this and so much more is documented in their day-by-day production records.

These sources have offered a priceless treasure trove of projectile information. I trust the above answers your questions.
WH

alwion

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 11:29:43 AM »
were all the S & P shells sleeved shells, or have the large rebate at the bottom?

Woodenhead

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 12:54:18 PM »
To Alwion:  No, they soon returned to the smooth-sided design. I believe the sleeved and rebated style is rare. It was not unusual for the Ordnance Bureau to announce a pattern change and then adjust or withdraw it two weeks later. There were several notable examples of this during the second half of 1862. Apparently, the individual makers had some leeway in these matters because the 2.9 inch Parrotts that it appears Tredegar was making at this time kept the rebated base for a longer period. Samson & Pae soon returned to the smooth-sided style pictured below. Note that it has the same long lathe key (always broken-off) on the nose and impression of a square air vent on the bottom as the marked S & P 10 pounder I showed earlier in this stream. These were strictly S & P features seen most of their later 10 pounders. This smooth-sided Parrott was also stamped "S & P" on its bearing surface (see close-up). Only this respected Richmond shop stamped letter "H" on its shell bodies - always on the shoulder - usually below the key remnants. This letter was used the most during the second half of 1862 and at that time was also struck into a few of their 3 inch Reads, 20 pounder Parrotts and into one of their last 3.35 inch "Virginia Rifle Shells" made in July 1862 (see their vouchers). That is what they called them. They looked like short Parrotts.
S & P began stamping "C" followed by "Z" in early 1863. It seems they backed away (but did not stop) from the practice of marking letters after Gettysburg. I feel certain these are inspection marks as they appear on about one-in-five and that was all the inspectors would have had the time to rigorously inspect according to the Ordnance Manual's specifications. This is merely an observation, but it seems a similar percentage of Adolphus Rahm's output was stamped "AR" during the winter of 1863-64.

I have included a view of the sabot because it is instructive and helps date this projectile. It is clear that Samson & Pae was having trouble with their Parrott sabots during 1862. Their metal appeared to consist hammered wrought iron and they often split apart. Many show no signs of pre-rifling although I think an effort was made but the grooves were only five hundredths deep. This changed dramatically at the start of 1863 (around the time when they began stamping the "C"). Samson & Pae began "swedging" their sabots using relatively thin rolled iron of greater tinsel strength and flexibility. After the initial cone shape was struck in a die block and it was cast into the shell body, the entire thing was forced thru a reinforced cylinder gauge whose interior matched the 3-groove bore with the 5/100 windage added. Very much like the Federal's "forcing die" but limited to the sabot. It was arguably the best iron sabot the Confederatacy ever used with a ten pounder Parrott. In April 1863, they made the necessary former blocks and punches for the Salisbury Arsenal to do likewise, and three more sets were ordered from S & P later for Rahm and other local projectile makers. In late 1863 correspondence with Col. Rains, the Richmond Arsenal's superintendent Broun boasted that all of our Parrott sabots are iron and "swedged." This should have been a really big deal but it obviously wasn't recognized as such by the ordnance leadership. Tredegar swedged the last of their 10 pounder Parrotts (none made after March 1863). I don't see where any Deep South foundries followed suit.

The shell below is a 2.9 inch, 10 pounder CS Parrott made by Samson & Pae sometime between mid-August and December of 1862. It was found in Virginia.

 


alwion

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 02:55:58 PM »
TY great info, though if that second pict is the mark, I better look at my reads closer, I can't see it !! lol . I like maker marked stuff (which is why I like early contract bayonets and coin silver spoons) , and am fascinated by the S&H and AR marked shells. am watching this info closely  Alan

John D. Bartleson Jr.

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2015, 08:32:13 PM »
Woodenhead,
   You have more than answered my questions. It is most interesting about the south's copper shortage but it also led to the faithful wrought iron sabot.
   I am visually impaired and no longer drive so can't make it back to Richmond only 1.5 hours distant.
   Don't we wish we could buy those shells now for the price paid for them.
Thank you again for your dilligent research.  Your never ending information amazes me 
Thank k you agih for your most informative posts.
Best Regards,
John

Dave the plumber

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Re: Nice Acquisitions
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2015, 07:34:15 AM »
Mike,   just curious, why do you go by Woodenhead ??  If it's personal, we don't have to know !!