Found Shell - Hotchkiss 3in, Flat Nose

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Carl,
  True, so if they are in fact case shot, please enlighten me on how the flame emerging from the time ring, at the side of the ring, passes its flame to the base ejecting powder charge below a pusher plate, when the above cavity is filled with lead balls and matrix.  Mel does not report finding the lead case shot. The area should be covered with them..
Kind Regards,
John

[emike123]

Not a direct answer to your question John, but if you look at Jones book you will see my Wright fused Hotchkiss nose there.  Flip it over and there is this small hole under the 0 sec time mark which passes the flame to the powder cavity, presumably for a common shell with a powder filled cavity in the nose.

[CarlS]

John,

I'll try to answer you.  I have very little experience with that type round.  I think Civil War used rounds with this fuse are quite rare.  I did not answer you earlier in that I did not know the answer (and I'd guess that was the case with other forumites too).  I still don't know.  Trying to determine a reply from what little I know and making a lot of guesses I would not think they would use this shell in a case shot configuration.  As you pointed out unless there was something special done, the case and matrix as put in other shells would block the pass through channel so the time fuse flame could not get to the bursting charge.  And a percussion case shot shell is not very effective since the shell would likely be at least partly buried before it went off in most cases.  So I think until we find evidence that they made a case round in this configuration I would think they did not.  Perhaps one of the others here knows of a no doubt case round. 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
   That would not be a problem with a shell.  my drawing of the shell is made from the patent and it shows the flame exit down the side of the shell body. I really can't see where it is in relationship to the time ring in your photo.
Carl,
    I think if Mel finds no case shot balls in his impact site then I would think none were used there or they didn't make case shot for this projectile.
Pete,
   Can you make any comment that might shed some light on this interesting find in the desert?
Kind Regards,
John

[emike123]

I had fat fingered the uppercase for 0 which gave me a closed paren.  That has been fixed.  The exiot hole circled above is directly underneath the 0 second mark on the time fuse.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
   We forgive your fingers.  Does not the 0 rest on the shell bidy inside the fuze recessw?
Look at my 2nd drawing, isn't it same as your shell body?
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mike,
  I check the three combination fuze patents and all three have the flash hole at the edge of the shell body. I had the times crossed. Hotchkiss has 14 sec.  and Wright has 12
John

[Pete George]

John D. Bartleson Jr. wrote:
> Pete, in your book, how did you determine that the projectiles your book illustrates as case shot, were case shot and not shell?

  Bart, please pardon the delay in replying. I'm having bad trouble with debilitating side-effects from the post-heart-attack bloodthinner and Beta Blocker prescriptions I must take for the next 6 to 12 months. 

  On page 133 of the 1980 Edition of the Dickey-&-George book, Tom Dickey wrote that the specimen in the photo on that page (presumably from his own collection) was a Case-Shot, weighing 9 pounds 1 ounce, and has a "zinc fuse plug and 14-second Bormann time fuse." I do not understand why it would have a zinc fuzeplug in addition to the 14-second fuze -- I've never seen such a thing in this particular type of Hotchkiss. I can only assume Tom Dickey decided it is a Case-Shot by comparing its weight with other varieties of 3" Hotchkiss Case and Common-Shells.

  As the good questions you've raised in this discussion point toward, I do not think any of this type were Case-Shot.

Regards,
Pete

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Pete,
    I know what you are experiencing as I had my 4 Way by-pass in 2000.
I don't think Mel will find any lead balls either.
One patent shows 12 and one other shows 14 seconds.
Thnaks for your reply,
Kiknd Regards,
John