Found Shell - Hotchkiss 3in, Flat Nose

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Perhaps it was not issued in case shot! However Dickey-George page 169-170 indicates there are.
Any idea Pete on how the time fuse communicated to the base charge?
John

[hawesm]

Here's the pics of the found shell in its natural (and current) state.  I was mistaken about the fuse area being covered with a blank plate, it appears that there is a hole in the center filled with corrosion. Two more coming.

[hawesm]

Two more.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Good, thank you. a toothbrush in a bucket of water will help clean up the time fuse without any danger. It is definitely a Hotchkiss projectile that has been fired looking at the lead skirt (sabot) that is distorted. The desert has kept it in good condition. Have you found someone to take it to?
Regards,
John

[hawesm]

John, no - I haven't found anyone to take it to, but I have a friend who may know somebody who can clean it up and flush the powder out of it. We're heading out to the location next weekend to scan the area with metal detectors - might find another one if we scratch the surface. I halfway expect to find bullets or more evidence of a conflict.  There was some indian drama in the area in the 1870's-80s. I'd contact a historian and share the info, but I decided I'd like keep the place to myself for a while - good place to chase rabbits for the pups, and an occasional arrowhead to keep it interesting. Thanks for your help - i'll keep this thread updated as things develop.

MEL

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Dear MEL,
   I looks like dirt in the central hole of the fuze. I will be curious if there is lead shrapel balls inside or just a large chamber. There may also be markings on the base.  I dont guess you can make out the maximum time increment?
Best Regards,
John

[hawesm]

The maximum time increment is 14. I went back to the site this weekend with a buddy and a couple metal detectors.  This area is strewn with shrapnel fragments about 7 inches deep in the soil. We found a great variation of pieces including a lead ball (a bullet I presume). One base cup from a shell was intact and has legible writing "Hotchkiss Patent October 9, 1855." We found more pieces than we could dig - if we gridded off the area and got serious we could probably locate more complete shells - and who knows what. Clearly there was some excitement in this area at one time for one reason or another. I'll be posting the photos of the fragments later today. I thought my buddy would like to claim the original Hotchkiss shell that started this post, but he took a look at it and felt uncomfortable bringing it home. So it will lay until someone interested contacts me with interest in claiming it for their collection. I'd be happy to provide directions to anyone in the forum.

[CarlS]

I'll be right there!  Only 34 hours of driving for the 2300 miles!

Congratulations on your great finds and dig site.

[hawesm]

Here are some of the pieces/parts we dug up on Saturday.

[CarlS]

Boy that dry environment is sure tough on iron!  It's been a while since you could find much that was still in that that good of condition back east unless it was on the side of a rocky mountain.  Everything there looks to be from Hotchkiss rounds.  Would be interesting to see if you eventually find pieces to other types of artillery.

[Steve Phillips]

This sounds like a very interesting site to dig and save some history. Have any of these projectiles ever been found before  that were used in a fight?

[alwion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paiute_War
interesting article on the war. Started may 6th , 1860, and went on for awhile. was around Pyramid lake , Carson river, and virginia city area. They established 2 forts. during the war, some US artillery units, Company G, 3rd U.S. Artillery - Captain Joseph Stewart Company I, 3rd U.S. Artillery - Lieutenant Horatio G. Gibson, were sent from Cal to help fight the indians. Not really civil war, but early indian war at the same time. looks like they were fighting on and off till 1878. sounds like a fun area to go detecting to me!!!!

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Mel,
  The first photo, center fragment; has a cut nail protruding from part of the lower black powder cavity.  The cut nail makes that a shell and not a case shot(shrapnel) projectile.  I have been unable to determine if this type round was even issued in case shot. Does anyone know?
Regards,
John

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Pete,
   In your book, how did you determine that the projectiles your book illustrates as case shot, were case shot and not shell?

Mel,
  The time element is a Wright fuse by virture of having 14 seconds. You have a message at top of page.
Regards,
John
 

[CarlS]

John,

I'm not speaking for Pete on what he and Tom did to determine case shot shells verses common shell but weight is an easy way to do it in most if not all cases.  When lead case shot is used the resulting shell will be very close to the weight of a solid shot; i.e. a 12-lber lead balled case cannon ball is very close to 12 pounds.  The iron case ball is not far behind at around 11 pounds.  The 12-lber common shell weighs in around 8 pounds or so.  You see this same situation for other round balls and rifled shells as well.