Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: John M. Brooke on September 27, 2014, 09:57:10 PM
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The Britten Percussion Fuse working or not working all depended on a musket cap firing. I was wondering if
these caps were just any old musket caps or were special caps developed just for these fuses?
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u365/johnmbrooke/BrittenFuse_zps1ad4a452.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/johnmbrooke/media/BrittenFuse_zps1ad4a452.jpg.html)
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The one that I have just seems to have a unfired regular appearing percussion cap on it.
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Brooke,
The Brittan Percussion Fuze used a standard top hapt cap. Your drawing has a missing section, that of the cut ring around the fuze tail and the lead safety plub that retained the striker intil setback or impact. Several reproductions are around and have a smooth tail with no ring or rings.
Below is a disassembled fuze as it came from the Fort.
John
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The reproduction fuze at top and the real U.K. striker at bottom.
John
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John,
Have any strikers been found in the US like the one your bottom image shows? All that I've seen (and I'll admit that is not a lot) found around here are like the one Scott has in the original posting with the shallow rings on the taper. I don't recall ever seeing one with the deep groove as you show.
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Carl,
The bottom fuze striker came from the fuze in my first post and was one of three that came from Fort Branch, in the Roanoke River.
In my opinion, the strikers that have numerous lathe marks of of C.S. manufacture. I also believe that all the others shown below are C.S. I have a copy of Britten's patent if anyone is interested.
Regards,
John
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r492/jbart252/DSCN1180.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/jbart252/media/DSCN1180.jpg.html)
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I have one from Fort Caswell installed in a shell. I'll look at the striker when I get home this evening to see what it has on it. It's grooved, but I can't remember if it is deep or not.
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Sir would you post two photos one in the shell and a closeup out of shell.
John
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John
Here's a pic of two strikers in my collection.
Dan
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Hi Dan,
Not having the one centrally located retention groove like the U.K. lower striker in my post I have to assume that both of yours are C.S. manufacture, unfortunately I cannot prove them so.
Were yours from Britten or Blakely shells?
Joyhn
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Thanks all,
Its good to see some great pictures and get some info on a fuze I rarely see at shows or anywhere else for that matter.
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Dan,
Below is a copy and paste excerpt from Bashley britten's patent 585 of 1861:
"For causing the explosion of the bursting charge of such shells, the ordinary time or concussion fuzes may be used, or the arrangement of which a longi¬tudinal section is shewn in Figure 3 can be employed. f is a cylindrical case 10 of suitable material (metal preferred) open at one end, and having a somewhat contracted aperture at the other. This outer case has a screw thread exter¬nally. g is a moveable piece or striker, one end of which is formed with a nipple to receive a percussion cap at h ; k is a metallic cap or cover screwed
on to the case f ; 1 is a ring of lead or other material tightly driven into the 15 space between the outer case and the striker so as to retain the latter in its place till released by the concussion at the discharge of the gun. This ring of lead may be sometimes dispensed with, and the striker left quite free. When the shell has been charged with powder, this outer case with the other parts described (Figure 3) is screwed into the aperture of the shell, and thus the 20 charged shell may be retained without danger of explosion. At any moment before being inserted in the gun, the outer cover f can be readily unscrewed with the hand, and an ordinary percussion cap placed on the nipple h. The outer cover being replaced, the shell may be rammed into the gun and fired."
Unfortunately it does not describe the striker tail arrangement of groove or groovesand the drawing is not that clear in that area. When I made the drawing of his patent the detail of the tail was so poor that I used an example of modern day and as you would guess it turned out to be a multi-groove C.S.
The Fuzes from Fort Branch, NC, I think should be used as the norm from U.K.
Regards,
John
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r492/jbart252/BritishBrittenShrapnelShellPercussionFuze.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/jbart252/media/BritishBrittenShrapnelShellPercussionFuze.jpg.html)
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I just finally got one of these fuses to unscrew (without trashing the head with channel locks as so many do) and out popped the percussion cap on the right which looks identical to a musket percussion cap on the left in this picture. The slider is still fused inside the lower threaded portion of the fuse so working on it still.
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I've had pretty good luck using "strap" wrenches.
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Mike, what projectile was it in? I don't see the lead safety plug, is it still in the fuze fody? What type of grooves was on the striker tail?
Johhn
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It was in a 3.5in Britten shell and more info is here:
http://www.bulletandshell.com/Items/item.php?id=U00304
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Thanks Mike, Last two questions??
John
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2nd to last: No
Last: Shallow rings which you may not be able to see in the pictures but are there.
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John,
You quoted,
This ring of lead may be sometimes dispensed with, and the striker left quite free. When the shell has been charged with powder, this outer case with the other parts described (Figure 3) is screwed into the aperture of the shell, and thus the 20 charged shell may be retained without danger of explosion. At any moment before being inserted in the gun, the outer cover f can be readily unscrewed with the hand, and an ordinary percussion cap placed on the nipple h. The outer cover being replaced, the shell may be rammed into the gun and fired."
Never having seen one with any lead or remains of lead leads me to believe that it was dispensed with as not being necessary. I am referring to the type of striker with rings as shown in my previous post.
God Bless
Dan
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Mike, do you think this was one where the safety lug was omitted and they put th cap on just before firintg?
John
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We found no signs of the lead plug in the fuse or the shell we cut open to salvage this fuse.
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Mike,
If the shell was fired and failed to detonate, then the plug must have dropped at setback into the powder or wasn't used to begin with. "See my long post".
John
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Bart, none of the forum-members who've replied in this discussion say they've seen the lead ring in the "collarless" version of Britten Percussion fuze. Therefore, apparently, the only version of Britten Percussion fuse found in America which had the lead ring is the hex-collar version.
According to the fuze-book by Jones, the hex-collar version has only been seen in America in "Preston" (hex-flanged Blakely/Scott shells).
In my opinion, there are two reasons why it seems unlikely that the Confederates manufactured any Britten Percussion fuzes.
1- The Britten Percussion fuze had a very low successful-detonation rate in comparison to the Archer fuze. So, it seems unlikely that the Confederates would manufacture copies of a poor-performing foreign fuze when they already had the well-performing Archer fuze.
2- Apparently, the Britten Percussion fuzes are always "yellow brass"... which seems to have been so scarce a metal in the wartime South that the Confederates had to use copper or "red/orange" (high-copper-content) brass for the vast majority of their fuzes. I've never seen, or even heard of, a Britten fuze which is made of copper or red/orange brass... only yellow-brass.
Regards,
Pete
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Pete,
As you can see the ones from Fort Branch were yellow brass and had the lead safety plug. You would think that the C.S. would have removed the poor performance Britten fuze and replaced it with one of theirs. Same for the Blakely shells that used them. In my post on page one that shows several Britten style fuzes, they are like the Britten fuze but yet different. Since I do not own one, never held one, I just assumed they were C S. made. Thanks for your correction.
Kind Regards,
John aka Bart
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Dan,
sorry I missed your post. My quote came from the patent paper. Without the lead plug it is no wonder the striker wobbled,, became canted and were duds.
Does anyone know when Fort Branch was an active fort and why these fuzes with the lead safety plug was being used? Was Branch an early or late war fort?
John
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John,
Here is the historical timeline of the fort:
http://www.fortbranchcivilwarsite.com/history-timeline.aspx
While the fort was built in 1862, the only real battle was in December 1864.
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Carl,
Thank you for the Fort Branch web site. I now wonder where, in the fort, the three fuzes with lead plugs were found? I quess the final question is who removed the plugs, C.S. or U.K. Thanks everyone for your input and especially Pete for bring me back to perspective.
Kind Regards,
John
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You're welcome, Bart. Here is some additional info.
John D. Bartleson Jr. wrote:
> You would think that the C.S. would have removed the poor performance Britten fuze
> and replaced it with one of theirs.
All of the Britten fuzes (percussion and time) had left-twist threading, which of course had to match the threading in the shells. So, the Confederates faced an additional problem in the prospect of removing the poor performance Britten fuze from the shell and replacing it with one of theirs. It would have to be made with left-twist threading. The Confederates actually did do that, with one of the rarest of all variations of CS timefuze adapter plugs. One is shown in the group photo in this discsussion. It has left-twist threading, like all the British-made Britten fuzes.
Using a Percussion fuze in a case-shot shell is wasteful, because the case-shot balls/slugs/wedges will only hit the solid object the fuze detonates on. So, the Confederates removed the Britten Percussion fuze from some 3.5" Britten Case-Shot shells, and replaced it with a CS-made timefuze plug which had left-twist threading.
That is Reason #3 why (in my opinion) the Confederates did not make any copies of the Britten Percussion fuze. Not only was that fuze poor-performing, to use it in Britten shells you'd have to manufacture your copy with left-twist threading -- which meant it could be used ONLY in certain types of scarce imported British-made shells. Better to just make lots of well-performing Archer fuzes, with the standard American right-twist threading.
Regards,
Pete
Regards,
Pete
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IN addition to what Pete said:
So, the Confederates removed the Britten Percussion fuze from some 3.5" Britten Case-Shot shells, and replaced it with a CS-made timefuze plug which had left-twist threading.
The Yankees undoubtedly took them out and used wood fuse adapters for time fuses. None of the 3-inch Brittens from West Helena, Arkansas have fuses yet they have threaded fuse holes. I've seen a couple with wood remnants in them. Additionally I know a fellow who found about 16 3.5-inch Brittens at another battle with 4 of them having the percussion fuses and the rest with no metal in the fuse holes. A couple of the ones with no Britten fuse had a reasonably good wood fuse adapter preserved in them and some others had wood pieces that washed out when flushed. Both groups were fired by US troops. So in addition to the copper fuse plug Pete mentions for the Confederate use, the Yanks drove wood time adapters into them presumably to deal with the poorly performing percussion fuse. But I might also add that both battlefields have rather soft soil so perhaps the percussions would bury before going of and were totally ineffective. I'm not sure if they used a standard tapered wood adapter or they somehow fabricated one to fit the threaded fuse hole of the shell.
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Thought you guys might enjoy seeing a shell I dug at Port Hudson with the striker froze forward after it had struck
the dome cap so violently it had distorted the nipple. Apparently the percussion cap failed to explode or was jarred
loose before impact.
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Thanks for your post, was it a Britten shell? No lead safety plug?
Regards,
John
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To All Interested;
Below is the C.S. time fuse adapter that Pete and Carl spoke of. Question what material was is made of? I illustrate it as brass. Pete mentioned that he had neer heard of or seen a copper Britten fuze.
I believe most fuzes were turned on a lathe using copper, braass or the gun metal type material. When turning a fuze to make it left vs. right hand threads requires the operator to merely throw a lever amd reverse the direction of turn. Not a big deal. Archer fuzes could have easily benn turned left handed. But they didn't.
I believe a water cap fuse was also adapted for the Britten shell.
Kind Regards,
John
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r492/jbart252/36InchBrittenShellGeorgianaPointedNose.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/jbart252/media/36InchBrittenShellGeorgianaPointedNose.jpg.html)
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John; Reguarding the shell with the damaged striker. The shell is a 3.5" BLAKELY (preston) that I dug at Port Hudson. Ronnie
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Thank you. Blakely is its name, Preston was its manufacturer.
John
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Ronnie,
That Preston (I call it that for you John!) must have really hit something hard like the head of one of my relatives! Another of your neat finds!
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Not sure whether this one worked or not. Blew right through the top. Got this fuse loose, so it might have happened at detonation.
Dan
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Dan,
what a neat fuze frag.Did you mean that it was still in the shell body?
Carl, I refer to the six flanged shell as a Blakely, not by it name of manufacturer.
John 8)
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John,
It wasn't in a shell.
Dan
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Dan,
then I would guess that at the split second of detonation it bluew striker and the top portion of the anvil cap off just before the shell completed it breakup ejecting the fuze body.
Regards,
John