Bullet and Shell Civil War Projectiles Forum
Relic Discussion => Artillery => Topic started by: 6lbgun on November 10, 2015, 09:34:11 AM
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Good Morning
Picked these up at a local gun show from a cartridge collector this past weekend. :D
God Bless
Dan
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You must be living right! Next you'll tell us you got them all for $20. ;D
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Paid a little more than $20. ::). Always try to make the local gun shows. I'm always in the market for a couple of thousand rounds of ammo. While I'm at the show I'll beat the bushes for CS fuzes, primers etc. Finding stuff like this rarely happens.
Dan
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I am curious about the Selma primers. I have found tin plated iron tube primers that look like these but don't know of copper tube variety from Selma in this style. Are these actually from Selma?
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Steve
Here's a pic of a Selma primer box with two primers. The pic was posted back in Feb 2013 by Selma Hunter. The box is also shown in Bill Lockridge's book on Civil War Selma on page 211. The other pic is a close up of the primer on the right. Both primers are made of brass.
I am aware of the tinned iron primers that you speak of. Why would the same facility manufacture the same primer in two different metals? The following is just a theory with no documentation to back it up:
Perhaps the tinned (to prevent corrosion) ironed primers were made when Selma was joint Army/Navy operation and brass primers were produced by the Naval Laboratory after the Navy took complete control in mid 1863. Just a thought.
Dan
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I think the iron primers were late war when they were short on copper. I just have never personally found the copper in that style. I have found many copper of the standard styles.
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The iron ones being late war due to copper shortages makes more sense. Location of where the were found would help.
Speaking of the iron ones: If any out there has a spare iron one (dug or not), I need one for my CS primer collection.
Thanks
Dan
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Dan, can you please post a few photo's of the center primer please. I haven't seen that one. And if you are coming to Richmond this weekend, could you please bring it with you ?
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Iron primers from Selma.
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In over 40 years of diving at Selma I have found only a few of the iron primers and as far as I know no one else has found any. I traded off a couple over the years and I think they have moved around. When you are in Alabama you should come and see the various styles from Selma in my collection.
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Guys,
My take on the difference in color or tone on the primers shown in my book is that the top has been sealed with lacquer or spar varnish. Both were used if I am not mistaken. See Dahlgrens treatise.
Thanks for sharing. I am not sure but I may have one more of the metallic Selma Quill primers but I will have to look. They are non-ferrous.
If you are interested in selling one of the small Selma friction primers please let me know.
Ya'll have fun at the show.
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Steve
I'll take you up on the invite. I plan on being down your way next spring or summer.
Dave
I'll try to get those pictures of the quill primer posted later today. I'll bring this stuff along with me to Richmond this weekend.
Take care
Dan
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Dave
Here's some pics.
Dan
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thanks Dan !! That is a new type to me. See you tomorrow
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Dan, coujld you explain how this last primer functions??
Regards,
John
Beautiful images BTW
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John
It was ignited with a port fire.
Dan
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Hello Dan,
You know, I was unaware that they still used them during the war. I thought everything was lanyard fired.
Thank you,,
John
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Dan, John, et al,
Yes, they could be ignited with a portfire, or a quick/slow match, or generally & more commonly, with a gun lock.
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John
In the Additional Rules for Laboratories, published by CS Central Laboratory, Ord., Macon Ga., May 30,1863 it mentions Priming Tubes ("Spur Tubes")
Bill,
These paper priming tubes do not have a percussion igniter that I can see, just ignition by the quick match hanging from the end. If this is the case, wouldn't it have to be ignited by some type of match? A gun lock would just crush it.
Dan
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I would think so. Aren't quill primers ignite4d by a flame of some sort.??
It is odd how we don't sometimes pay attention to the small things.
Regards.
John
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Guys,
Quill primers were very versatile devices. They can be fired with a lock (percussive) or a heat source (quick match, slow match, portfire, common match, etc.). The magic formula called for a mixture of Mercury Fulminate (sensitive to percussive/concussive impact), ground glass (preferably ground French leaded glass which provides an abrasive component to the mixture) and a fine musket powder - included for obvious reasons. Please note that the formula herein was for the top element of the primer only - the tube was filled with powder only.
I will not say that the primer you have is not intended to be fired by a heat source only, but "quill primers" were quite versatile, as I stated.
My reference copy of "Dahlgrens Treatise" (1853) on gun locks (including quill primer manufacturing) has been moved from the assigned place in my bookcase. Benêt's "Ordnance Memoranda No. 21" (1878) shows a slightly different formulation for friction primers but does shed a huge light on all kinds of ammunition and pyrotechnic data of that period. Many of the questions and issues sometimes speculated on in this forum can be answered therein.
So, dig out your copy of Dahlgren's and check it out.
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Hi Bill,
A powerful lot of info, thank you. BTW congratulations on your "mug shots" in the Artilleryman magazine.
Take care,
Cuz Bart
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Bart,
Thank you, Sir!
Sure was good to hear Kay's voice the other day.
Keep up your good work. Your art in the same issue is gonna knock'em out. Congrats on your "appointment".
Bill