Question Regarding Cleaning of Projectile

[callicles]

I post below a picture of my "Selma" bolt in the process of being cleaned.  My friend is cleaning it for me and this is his first projectile to clean.  He's doing a heckuva job! As you might see from the picture, iron rust has bled over the copper sabot.

Can anyone here tell us the best way to remove the iron rust from the sabot without damaging any patina?

Thanks

[callicles]

Hopefully a better picture

[Steve Phillips]

Does this bolt have salt water damage. If it does you must get all the sulfides out or it will fall apart later. It is not impossible to stop the corrosion, but takes a lot of time.

[Pete George]

  He told me he dug it three feet deep in a frequently-fertilized field.  I'm concerned about the iron be affected by the fertilizer's nitrate and phosphorus. (Notice the greyish-white and blue colors on the copper disc sabot.)

  As you know, when an iron projectile is dug with an unusually thick rust "cocoon" on it (which somewhat resembles a potato), that means soil acidity has leached a LOT of iron molecules out of the projectile's body.  Callicles' previous photos of his freshly-dug 3.3" Selma Disc-Sabot Bolt show the thick cocoon on it.

Regards,
Pete

[Steve Phillips]

The original photo looked like the projectile is going to have problems and may fall apart. I think it should be boiled in fresh water each day for about two weeks. Each day change the water. Eventually the water will not be stained and I would keep boiling and changing a few more times. Of course holding in my hand I could feel if weight has been lost and know more about problems.
Steve

[Steve Phillips]

I would not worry about a stain on the sabot. The problem is the iron. After all sulfides are gone I would use tannic acid to preserve and then keep in constant controlled humidity and temperature.

[callicles]

Pete/ Steve,

Thanks for the comments.  The projectile was never exposed to salt water (refer to Pete's post above).  I will take this information to the guy cleaning it for me.

Still, what's going to be the best way to remove the iron from the sabot -- use a drimmel tool or does the tannic acid do the trick?

Thanks

[Steve Phillips]

Heavy fertilizer would do the same as salt water. You must get rid of the sulfides. Looking at the photo it appears to have damage and probably has weight loss. Tannic acid reacts with iron and actually converts rust to a black protective coating. It is sold by Gempler's under the name Rust Converter. I have used it for many years now and prefer it to other coatings that hold the iron together while it falls apart from the inside out. I used micro crystalline wax long ago when I preserved Tom Dickey's collection for the Atlanta History Center but it is much better and easier to use Rust Converter.

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hi Steve,
   Is the rust converter better than a year of electrolysis?
Regards,
John

[Steve Phillips]

I use electrolysis some but not long term. Low current for a year will get rid of sulfides but who has that much patience. I also when doing electrolysis to clean shells use higher current to make the rust sluff off. High current for long times will turn iron to a graphite like softness and ruin a shell. I don't use lye either. I haven't used lye for about 30 years. Baking soda will let you adjust the current flow to what is needed. I know some people still use lye or salt and they should quit doing that.

[pipedreamer65]

Ive run salt shells for over three years several times.  Yea, not for the impatient. 

Personally, I would run the projectile in question low amp for an extended period. It does not look done to me.  Not even close.

Ordinarily, if found on dry land you can run short period of time, but the cocoon it was in bothers me a bit .

[misipirelichtr]

Mr. Phillips, would you be so kind as to share your electrolysis set up with us?  I have to admit to doing more iron camp relics than shells, but I'm always looking for ways to improve and don't mind asking for help.  Thanks

[Steve Phillips]

I call the process reverse electrolysis. What you are doing is plating rust from your relic to your stainless steel. You can go to a scrap metal dealer that deals in non ferrous metals and buy an assortment of stainless tubing, 6 inch, 8 inch etc. That fits in a five gallon bucket. You can also build with flat stainless some small rigs for real small relics. You will need a battery charger that has a built in current meter. You will want a good many copper alligator clips and make sure these are connected above the water level. Current flows neg to pos or from relic to stainless. Use baking soda to give you the desired current flow.  It would take too long to explain all the little things that will effect different objects so I recommend you just start doing what you can and learn as you go. Start working with crap so you don't ruin good stuff. I will help people on the phone if they call me. 205-672-9310 I am not very comfortable typing. I tried to post many good photos on this page that show how to preserve relics but the page is designed so only propeller heads can post photos here and that way you get much wrong info.
Remember reverse electrolysis does not preserve the relics, it just gets the relic ready to be preserved. I'm not a fan of most collectors preservation attempts especially the sealers that are put on. Nothing is perfect on iron and deterioration will continue. Call if you want my opinions.
Steve Phillips

[misipirelichtr]

Steve, thank you - your post answered two of the primary questions I had.  My electrolysis efforts so far have been largely trial and error, and this helps quite a bit.  I may be giving you a call soon.

[Steve Phillips]

If any of you are near Alabama you should come visit and I will show how I unload, clean and preserve iron. I live near Birmingham.